Is there ANY Truth to OC's Too Often?

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: hounddog
Just how is the oil filter connected to a running rough issue? Thats really out there.Oil also.It would have to be something really off for oil to cause a rough run.Put your energy elsewhere hunting for a rough run issue or see a counselor.LOL


You're off base here. There have been many accounts on this site where changing the oil filter made a difference in the way the engine ran.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I looked for this topic on here and could not find anything.
I heard a rumor that changing too often can damage your engine.


not in any statistically significant way that would make any difference to the longevity of your engine.

Sure if you changed it 5 times a day for 5 years, you might "wear" your drain plug out, and have a few too many dry starts... neither of which is going to kill an engine.

 

[Errtt]

The way I see it, changing oil often keeps the add-pack strong and crud from building up - providing a good oil is used.
I can see if changing oil often, draining it cold and not having any oil in the replaced filter might not be best practice - I had always drained the oil hot right after a run. Particulate suspension, internals just got a coat of oil etc. I also wet the filter with as much oil as I can and get the filter spun on fast. Then since the engine was just ran, it would start warm vs a cold high idle start, and a coat of oil since it was just ran a bit ago.
On one of my motorcycles I change the oil often since the oil has the duty of the wet clutch and transmission in addition to the engine. The one oil has to put up with all three, so I take shearing in consideration. I use Rotella 5w-40 T6 in that bike.
In my other bike, the oil for the engine is separate, not sharing the clutch & transmission duty. Even then, I'm using Amsoil in it.
So the way I see it, changing often is better than not often enough. The add-pack VII, shearing, cleansing, filtering etc.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I looked for this topic on here and could not find anything.
I heard a rumor that changing too often can damage your engine. I was wondering if anyone subscribes to this view and has some good reasoning for it. I know it is a waste but had to ask. I have Amsoil XL in my Altima w/ about 2K on it and my car is so rough I'm getting worried about it. Now I am not sure if it is something else. I am changing the filter to see if that may be a prob. If it isn't that I'll change the oil, it will be my 4th one since FF. I have 14K. Keeping the receipts JIC. i have only used 'syns". Merry CHRITmas BITOG!!

There's a theory out there than oils have increased anti-wear properties once the add pack is worn out.

The theory I like to go by is that anti-wear is unnecessary unless you intend to use an engine for 500,000 miles or more. I usually get a new engine with every new car body anyways.

 

[Malo83]

It's just good insurance

http://neptune.spacebears.com/opine/3koil.html

 

[deven]

You can change oil at 1000, 2000, 3000 or whatever miles as long as you are not changing the oil too late rather than too soon the engine will out live the car as long as you are on top of the major servicies needed for your car. If you want to waste money and change it out every other week, knock yourself out, the engine will not know the differene. See my sig

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: Malo83
It's just good insurance

http://neptune.spacebears.com/opine/3koil.html

Look at when that article was written....2003. Oils have improved greatly since then...IMO...3000 OCI's are a waste of resources, time and $$$.
____________________________________
03 Ford Focus (2.3L Duratec) / 92K
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w20 / Mobi1 EP Filter / 10K+/- OCI's

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Malo83
It's just good insurance

http://neptune.spacebears.com/opine/3koil.html

Look at when that article was written....2003. Oils have improved greatly since then...IMO...3000 OCI's are a waste of resources, time and $$$.

Read the whole thing. It's a satire of people who call 3k mile OCIs "cheap insurance."

 

[fdcg27]

There may be some truth in the thought that too frequent changes can result in incresed wear.
New oil has fresh additives, which clean the antiwear additives from the surfaces in contact, which are then replaced by the antiwear aditives in the new oil.
There was a thread on here, which I cannot find, in which it was contended that wear metals peak in the first thousand miles after an oil change, and then stabilized at a lower level for many thousands of miles.
Now, I was once a 3K OCI advocate, and I now run only 5K.
Given this, my engines seem to survive just fine.
It is likely that far more damage is done from running oil too long than by changing it too frequently.
Having said all of the above, I don't think the oil is doing anything to hurt your engine.
You bought a premium oil, and a good filter.
If the car is running rough, it's under warranty.
Take it to the dealer, and let them figure out what's wrong with it.
I don't think it's the oil or the filter.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Malo83
It's just good insurance

http://neptune.spacebears.com/opine/3koil.html

Look at when that article was written....2003. Oils have improved greatly since then...IMO...3000 OCI's are a waste of resources, time and $$$.

Read the whole thing. It's a satire of people who call 3k mile OCIs "cheap insurance."

hahaha i love that link!! his comebacks are awesome!!
hes got a point tho but ill add to it
buy pennzoil at walmart and a decent filter for $15 dollars and change every 3k. its cheap enough and you will never have to worry about sludge. $15 every 3 months is a good deal!!

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There may be some truth in the thought that too frequent changes can result in incresed wear.
New oil has fresh additives, which clean the antiwear additives from the surfaces in contact, which are then replaced by the antiwear aditives in the new oil.
There was a thread on here, which I cannot find, in which it was contended that wear metals peak in the first thousand miles after an oil change, and then stabilized at a lower level for many thousands of miles.
Now, I was once a 3K OCI advocate, and I now run only 5K.
Given this, my engines seem to survive just fine.


It is likely that far more damage is done from running oil too long than by changing it too frequently.
Having said all of the above, I don't think the oil is doing anything to hurt your engine.
You bought a premium oil, and a good filter.
If the car is running rough, it's under warranty.
Take it to the dealer, and let them figure out what's wrong with it.
I don't think it's the oil or the filter.

 

[SubLGT]

I came across these comments at a Mercedes forum:

"BTW, if you change your oil early, you'll create damage. Follow ONLY Mercedes 10K mile specified intervals.

This is not 1956."


"The oils that meet MB spec are depositing protective features in your engine. They don't if you change them early. There is zip/zero/nada benefit to early oil changes--this is the 21st century and things aren't what they used to be."


"First oil change should have been at 10,000 mi. The 'factory' oil needs to stay in that long to properly break in the engine and 'set' the additive package. In any event, use ONLY the Mobil 1 ESP oil specified. Not usually too hard to find and it is NOT equivalent to Mobil 1 from Walmart"


"Fuchs TITAN GT1 229.51 SAE 5w30 (first fill oil in OM 642) is different from the Mobil 1 ESP change oil that M-B approves. It may not be classed as a 'break in' oil, but it DOES have a different additive package. Those additives require time to work, hence the 10,000 mi first change interval. Most subsequent change intervals are longer - depending on your driving conditions and habits."

 

[electrolover]

well im an AMERICAN. our cars just have a min oci recommendation.
if they want break-in oil in it for 10k why not just change it at 5k with more break-in oil.

"The oils that meet MB spec are depositing protective features in your engine. They don't if you change them early."

the only thing getting deposited in my opinion is sludge. break-in oils are very low on detergents and dispersants. maybe thats why we see them sludged up all the time?

 

[fdcg27]

These comments were made by whom?
A petroleum engineer?
A Mercedes engineer?
An experienced Mercedes tech?
Just some guy who has his first Mercedes, and is posting way above his pay grade?
From what I can see, there is no mechanical diference in the engine between the last Mercedes I owned, and any current model.
I doubt that changing the oil would retard the break-in process.
In any event, the engine has been run and broken in before it even saw the car in which it's installed.

 

[pbm]

I cut and pasted the following from a Honda forum. The author is one of the more knowledgeable posters. This is his reason why too frequent oil changes are bad (for your cats and sensors at least)




"New oil, no matter who makes it has somewhat volatile additives called SAPS, (sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur) of which the most volatile burn off in the first 500 miles after a change and go through the PCV system and are burned along with any small amounts of oil that are consumed by the engine. These additives are poison to the cat and a/f sensor. Some less expensive oils have more than others.

The reason that GF5 has come out is to reduce these additives among other things. The EPA and car manufacturers have been demanding the reduction of cat poison additives and friction reduction from the oil (fuel economy) quite a bit over the past several years. When the car makers have to warranty cats up to 150k now it gets very expensive if something in the oil could kill them early, barring any major engine issues otherwise.

You might be keeping super clean oil in it at an eventual cost of premature cat and primary a/f sensor failure. There's no way to know whether you'd get, say 180k out of the cat with 5k changes vs 120k at the 2500 change.

I do know, however, when my sister bought ultra-cheap 5w20 for her last Civic Si, and I changed it under protest The car immediately began to use oil at a greater rate. It went through more than 3 quarts in one interval with the cheap stuff (the oil light came on, and she freaked), where just the change previously it used a half qt in 8000 miles (she was always past) I made her buy MC semi 5w20 after that, and the oil consumption dropped and stayed at about 1.5 qt per change. I was forcing her to get to me at least by 6k at that point. About 20k after that it started coding the cat and lost the primary a/f sensor due to contamination. Coincidence or death by junk oil? "

 

[virginoil]

Changing the oil too often more likely to hurt your wallet rather than the engine.

Engine manufacturers have all stated that when the engine has been exposed to a short cycle of extreme driving conditions, at the end of the cycle the engine oil, transmission fluid, diff fluid etc should be changed immediately after and get rid of suspended wear particles on so on.

Usually the OCI is halved, in some instances it should be immediately.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
fdcg27 - Another slant on some of the statements you made;

1 - There is a significant difference in many of the Mercedes Benz engine families over recent years. You don't state the Model of the last one you owned - what was it?

2 - Some FF lubricants do contain specific ingedients to enable a more complete and faster break-in and may target specific components in the process

3 - The "average" Mercedes Benz engine is not broken-in prior to installation. At the engine Factory (Untertuerkheim) the engine is started and run for a very short time to check oil pressure and some other system control functions

Over many years I have seen many problems caused by using non-specified lubricants during the early stages in an engine's life

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: pbm
I cut and pasted the following from a Honda forum. The author is one of the more knowledgeable posters. This is his reason why too frequent oil changes are bad (for your cats and sensors at least)




"New oil, no matter who makes it has somewhat volatile additives called SAPS, (sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur) of which the most volatile burn off in the first 500 miles after a change and go through the PCV system and are burned along with any small amounts of oil that are consumed by the engine. These additives are poison to the cat and a/f sensor. Some less expensive oils have more than others.

The reason that GF5 has come out is to reduce these additives among other things. The EPA and car manufacturers have been demanding the reduction of cat poison additives and friction reduction from the oil (fuel economy) quite a bit over the past several years. When the car makers have to warranty cats up to 150k now it gets very expensive if something in the oil could kill them early, barring any major engine issues otherwise.

You might be keeping super clean oil in it at an eventual cost of premature cat and primary a/f sensor failure. There's no way to know whether you'd get, say 180k out of the cat with 5k changes vs 120k at the 2500 change.

I do know, however, when my sister bought ultra-cheap 5w20 for her last Civic Si, and I changed it under protest The car immediately began to use oil at a greater rate. It went through more than 3 quarts in one interval with the cheap stuff (the oil light came on, and she freaked), where just the change previously it used a half qt in 8000 miles (she was always past) I made her buy MC semi 5w20 after that, and the oil consumption dropped and stayed at about 1.5 qt per change. I was forcing her to get to me at least by 6k at that point. About 20k after that it started coding the cat and lost the primary a/f sensor due to contamination. Coincidence or death by junk oil? "



According to the above post the author is addressing damage to the CC and a/f sensor. He doesn't mention doing any damage to an engine. Clean oil is better for an engine than dirty oil, or even slightly dirty oil. Convincing me otherwise is going to be a real hard sell.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Clean oil is better for an engine than dirty oil, or even slightly dirty oil. Convincing me otherwise is going to be a real hard sell.


Not only do i agree, but you do NOT need to "Break in" the Oil. You break in an Engine.. a brand-new engine. 2000 VW Beetle 2.0 lists Break-In procedure as: "For first 10,000 miles of engine, drive at varying speeds in varying conditions to fully break-in the engine. Do not exceed 90 (85?) MPH during this time. After 10,000 miles, take to dealer for Oil change. VW recommends 5W-40." - And that is for the 2.0.

You do not see "Put in used oil instead of break-in oil" in those instructions!

They DO say taking a brand new set of tires and either a. "Lighting them up" once, OR driving a little ways.. will yield better traction than the brand new, Armor All showroom tire.. and that seems to be true (getting the pretty gloss off the tire. It acts as when it first rains. to a much less degree.)

But +1 on the Oil. New oil is best. Why wouldnt it be? .. That does not even make sense, used oil, even once.

Now, if in a pinch, reusing lightly used oil, ATF, whatever.. yeah it can be done, but ideally, New oil, EVEN IF USED ONCE (we have all been in a "Bind" with cash) should be treated as USED. Oil "Browns up" (some oil is so light, you cant really see it on the dipstick. Happens with Supertech. That is some near-invisible oil.)

 

[electrolover]

na man its dirty oil is better and clean oil is bad.
if anyone wants some good oil with the first 3k on it i have 25 gallons free for ya