Is Synthetic a waste of $?

[Superbuick96]

It's been said on BITOG many of time that conventional oil changes with reasonable intervals, and a decent filter is sufficient for most vehicles. (Which I can't disagree with) So for thos of us who use fully synthetic in our daily drivers that are NOT high end vehicles, is it correct to say that we are wasting our money? So is it a wash as far as protection goes if someone would do an O.C. with conventional every 4K or an O.C. with Fully syn every 8K. Or does fully syn offer better wear protection in the long term? Sorry if this topic is tired subject...

 

[tig1]

A good synt. like Ams, Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum will be a better lube at 10,000 mile OCI than dino at 5000 miles.

 

[RTBandit]

The truth is both will probably get your engine to 300,000. Not really worth worrying about - do which ever makes you more comfortable.

 

[dsmith41]

 

[HTSS_TR]

Is synthetic a waste of $ ?

It depends on OCI's and how do you do your oil changes. If you buy your oil and filter and have a mechanic change it for you for $10 labor, then synthetic saves you money:

Assume that you do 5k with dino and/or 10k with syn with 5 quarts sump. Filter for syn oil is more expensive for 10k miles OCI.

Dino: $10 oil($2/qt) + $3 filter + $10 labor = $23x2 = $46 for 10k miles

Syn: $20 oil ($4/qt PP) + $7 filter + $10 labor = $37 for 10k miles

If you do oil change yourself, then it is about even if you have OCI of syn oil double the interval of dino.

If you go with boutique oils such as Amsoil, Redline ... then the cost of those would be much more than dino even at double the OCI.

 

[JohnBrowning]

The problem is that regular oil is almost as expensive as synthetic any more! The margin in price difference is really getting small. In fact Conventional oil now cost's what I was paying for Amsoil and M1 in the 1980's and 1990's so go figure that one out!

If you plan on keeping your car or truck until the wheels fall off then Synthetic makes sense if not then yes you are wasting your money! Think about it what car can not make it 3=5 years on Conventional oil? Heck I know people that only change the oil every couple of years they just keep topping off. They trade in their vehicles every 4-5 years and they could care less if the next owner gets a sludged up engine. I worked with a guy that his uncle in West Virgin I think it was might only change the oil on a vehicle 3-5 times in the course of 120,000 miles. He never had a vehicle fail during that time frame. Sure the next owner got a worn out sludged up beast but his uncle did not care.

Then you have the national average of 9000 miles between oil changes based on information from the National Association of Lube Professionals or something like that! This is based on data collected by places that change oil for a living like Jiffy Lube and other's like them!So if the national average is 9000 miles between oil changes and the national average is what 12K-15K miles a year you do the math not a lot of oil changes being done by most drivers! These types seldom pony up for the expensive synthetic no no no these are the bulk oil users that just tell them to put in what ever it takes??????

When you are like me though and you have vechiles like a 1982 Toyota Starlet and 1986 4Runner and 1987 Toyota Hi Lux all still in the family and still running good synthetic makes a huge difference. So it definately is not a must have. In fact even if I had a vechile that called for synthetic if I had no intention of keeping it past 2-3 years I would not use synthetic in it at all!

In fact even with the modern Corvettes their are two types of COrvette owners. Some that will only use synthetic and some that will not use synthetic at all if you paid them and they still do 1500 mile OCI's! I am not kidding you either.....Synthetic v.s. conventional is almost as much of a hot button topic as abortion or legalized mercy killings etc.....

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: tig1
A good synt. like Ams, Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum will be a better lube at 10,000 mile OCI than conventional at 5000 miles.
Tig1 is probably right, but seeing all the engine internals I have seen run on yesterdays spec conventional oils for far longer OCI's than they should have been and watching them all survive into the "high mileage" category I would have to say that conventional is pretty much fine for 99% of the vehicles out there IMO.

That said I run a syn because my engine has a cranky leprechaun in it that lets me know he isn't happy when its cold out. If he didn't come with my SUV I would be using conventional and an Amsoil EAO filter.

Now in Turbo, high performance, high output, or extremely high heat (not talking about driving in Texas summer weather) applications I would go with a Syn as recommended by the manufacturers.

Truth is there is millions of vehicles on the road that see nothing but questionable quality bulk conventional usually in the wrong weight as specified by the MFG, or the climate conditions and questionable filters with over extended OCI's under severe duty conditions and yet they still manage to last a very long time...

Marketing from the oil companies would have you believe otherwise.

 

[jorton]

Yes, it is when you buy the oil.

No, it's not after the you change the oil.

 

[oilboy123]

For longer intervals and less time on your back under the car, I say it is not a waste. I would think the wear with syn is less, but I can't prove it.

I do know that if you run really low on oil I would feel much more warm and fuzzy with syn in the sump. I had a friend that let her oil run to maybe 1/2 capacity or less. The oil light was flickering and that is when she called me. When I changed the oil I could not see anything in the filter media on the cartridge filter. If it was dino I would expect to see more than that.

 

[StevieC]

My sister ran her Elantra for 10 minutes with no oil and the engine is still ticking... She was driving from the oil change place she goes to when she has money for an oil change (not when its needed, and usually grossly overdue) and the idiots put the filter on with the old gasket still in place. She drove home 30KM from the place and by the time she pulled in the driveway the light was on. She leaves the car running, and comes in to get my dad to ask him about it.

No oil left in the engine, making horrendous clicking style noises.

Dad shuts it off, pulls the stick and realized the problem. He fills it up and off she goes.

135K KM later and the car is still going. (Car has over 300K KM on it now!)

This car has seen nothing but el-chepo dino, fram filters for the most part and about 20K KM OCI's.

Hers is green and looks like this, but with rusty spots all over:

 

[Dr_No]

Depends on your car. I have a turbo car with aftermarket cams, that runs high oil temps. I wouldn't run regular oil in a car like that.

 

[StevieC]

For sure...

 

[ionbeam22]

No, because what you are paying for is the "redundancy" in the oil. Even though I plan to change the oil every 3K miles, with a synthetic oil I could safely go at least 6000 miles or more. So the probability of a lubrication failure (even though remote with conventional oil to begin with) is made that much more remote.

Of course part of what might be affecting things is how conventional/blend oils are usually made from recycled oil, so when you figure out what the average US motor oil waste stream looks like, the base stock in conventional oil is better quality due to synthetic base oils being added in. To say nothing of all the auto-RX users doing their part.

Personally, I'm waiting for SafetyKleen, to get their eco-power out into wider distribution. Not quite conventional, not quite synthetic...

http://www.ecopoweroil.com/

Right now $46 per 12 quarts.

 

[hpichris]

No

 

[Audi Junkie]

Taking the 2:1 cost ratio of conventional to synthetic, you need a 2:1 mileage (service) interval to break even. I also exclude the cost of the filter, since it's quite easy and recommended to re-use the filter, especially if it drained...basicly say a filter is good for the 10k.

Anyway, if you assume 2:1, then you have to redefine the question as what gives a better result, conventional at 5k (or 6k) or synthetic at 10k-12k? I think conventional at half the interval will give a better result. Look at the starting TBN to compare. Also look at the cold fact that there is no substitute for PHYSICALLY draining OUT all the contaminates, and starting fresh.

Another point synthetic users mention is cold-cranking. Well, CC degrades quickly over the service interval. So, can we say with any confidence that synthetic oil with 8k on it is going to CC better than conventional with 2k on it? I doubt it.

 

[ryland]

The thing that bothers me about synthetic is that even when the oil companys say that syn dosent cause oil leaks but put syn gear oil in a otherwise fine and non leaking diff and magicly it will leak through the seals. Thats off topic though.

Yes if you change your oil less than you can easily make it worth the money, but if your crazy like me and change it too soon no matter whats in there it probably good to use dino.

 

[RoGuE]

I guess the main question in this thread is if synthetics only advantage is OCI. For me, it doesn't seem to make sense. I drive 4000 miles a years [4 miles each way to work] and I don't really drive all that much otherwise. In my case, I figure I'll just use Pennzoil conventional and change it twice a year. [2007 Malibu with 2.2L Ecotec]

Synthetic would not give my any advantage in my case, would it?

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: tig1
A good synt. like Ams, Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum will be a better lube at 10,000 mile OCI than conventional at 5000 miles.
Tig1 is probably right, but seeing all the engine internals I have seen run on yesterdays spec conventional oils for far longer OCI's than they should have been and watching them all survive into the "high mileage" category I would have to say that conventional is pretty much fine for 99% of the vehicles out there IMO.

That said I run a syn because my engine has a cranky leprechaun in it that lets me know he isn't happy when its cold out. If he didn't come with my SUV I would be using conventional and an Amsoil EAO filter.

Now in Turbo, high performance, high output, or extremely high heat (not talking about driving in Texas summer weather) applications I would go with a Syn as recommended by the manufacturers.

Truth is there is millions of vehicles on the road that see nothing but questionable quality bulk conventional usually in the wrong weight as specified by the MFG, or the climate conditions and questionable filters with over extended OCI's under severe duty conditions and yet they still manage to last a very long time...

Marketing from the oil companies would have you believe otherwise.

I'm going with Stevie on this one.

The only reasons I use Synthetics:


1.) Wife is tough on cars. Helps me keep it running longer.

2.) MI has some crazy weather and people around here. It just pays to be prepared.

3.) I plan on running them into the ground.


For what amounts to maybe 50 bucks a year difference, it's just worth it.

 

[erogers]

Cost of 5-quart jug of Mobil 1 Extended Performance at Walmart = $26.00
Cost of Motorcraft FL-820S filter = $3.89

For $30, I have an oil change that lasts for one year or 15,000 miles, whichever comes first (for me, it's one year). You could maybe (just maybe) do two conventional oil changes with cheap filters for the same price as the Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil change. Would it be better? No. Would you create more work for yourself? Yes. It sure doesn't seem like a waste of money (or time) to me!

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: ryland
The thing that bothers me about synthetic is that even when the oil companys say that syn dosent cause oil leaks but put syn gear oil in a otherwise fine and non leaking diff and magicly it will leak through the seals. Thats off topic though.


Your proof of this is??????