Is Mobil1 5w-30 the Roger Maris of motor oils?

[Dr. T]

Patman, a 0-40 can flow better in cold than a 5-30 because at extremely cold temps. -30 - -35C it's thinner.

But at 40 C and beyond...eg. 100C, it's thicker. Remember, 40C is 104F...hot! Both 40 and 100C are hot. Therefore, it's an oil with a WIDER range. It simply doesn't thin out as much as a 30 weight when hot.

As far as the M-1 15-50, it's basically twice as thick at 40C than the 10-30. True, the pour point is the same. This is because the pour point is simply the point at which there is NO movement of an oil on a vertical surface for 5 seconds. Doesn't mean much. Basically it's thick all the way through the temp range...and still exibits movement at -49F whereas the GTX doesn't. So don't go by the pour point numbers...they're not the complete picture regarding cold performance. The pumpability numbers (when posted) are. The cold cranking numbers for a viscosity comparison at a specific temperature....eg. at -25C M-1 15-50 is 14,050 cP and the 10-30 is 3,848 cP and the 5-30 is 3600 cP at -30C!! The 5-30 GTX is probably in this range...because these are the SAE/API requirments for these grades...not the pour points!

So a 5-30 will always outperform a 15-50 in temps below -20C regardless of pour points...it's just below this, the GTX 5-30 will 'freeze' sooner...ie. at -33C vs. -45C (not -37C as you posted-this is the pump. limit).

This can probably be deduced as a "safety margin" we have with synthetics...ie. they can still work at temps. below where conventionals will freeze. Hence, the pumpability for M-1 15-50 is advertised as -37C!

 

[Mike_dup1]

fyi

My 2001 GMC owners manual says this;

quote:

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As in chart shown previously, SAE 5W-30 is best for your vehicle. However, you can use SAE 10W-30 if it's going to be 0 F (-18 C) or above. These numbers on an oil container show its viscositym or thickness. Do not use other viscosity oils, such as 20W-50.

If you live in an area where the temperature falls below -20 F (-29 C), consider using either an SAE 5W-30 synthetic oil or an SAE 0W-30 Oil. Both will provide easier cold starting and better protection for your engine at extremely low temperatures.

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So, a 0W-40 would not be recommended for my vehicle.

My 2002 Ponitac says the same thing and specifically says not to use 20W-50 but a lot of LS1 owners use it all the time.

 

[Jay]

quote:

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Originally posted by YZF150:

How many of you, the oil cognoscenti, use or would use the 0w instead of the 5w? Why do you? Why don't you?

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I used M1 0w-30 in my RSX. It was the first oil I tried and I totally agree with your reasoning in your first post. M1's 0w-30, according to SAE paper 981444, achieves it's high VI primarily with the use of 4cSt PAO in combination with group V synthetic fluids. So Mobil may be using less VII's in their 0w-30 and 0w-40 oils than 5w-30 and 10w-30. The shear stability graphs in the same paper bear this out.

I was unhappy with the 0w-30 in my car because my consumption was so much higher than with 5w-20 or M1 5w-30. XHVI, however, said he didn't burn M1 0w-30.

Patman, on a temp vs visc chart M1 0w-40's graph has much less slope than oils with lesser VI. M1 0w-40 crosses 10w-30's line at about -12*C and 5w-30 at about -35*C.

 

[Giles]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jay:
Patman, on a temp vs visc chart M1 0w-40's graph has much less slope than oils with lesser VI. M1 0w-40 crosses 10w-30's line at about -12*C and 5w-30 at about -35*C.

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I've been looking for such a graph. Is there one you can point me to?

 

[Mike Thompson]

On the matter of VIIs, if MB accepts M-1 0W-40 for their extended-range use, obviously the oil maintains its stability well. On another note, what reference could I use to understand the units used here, ie cP (cold pumping units).
Finally, quoting:
Originally posted by Jay:
"Patman, on a temp vs visc chart M1 0w-40's graph has much less slope than oils with lesser VI. M1 0w-40 crosses 10w-30's line at about -12*C and 5w-30 at about -35*C."
How can this be? What temp. is used to compute the lower (0W) number? Surely its above -35C....and therefore 0W-40 can't cross above 5W-30 at that temp.
Mike

 

[Jay]

Giles, Mike, You can get the chart from Mobil 1 and you'll see what I mean. Email them and ask for VTA018A.pdf or PM me and I'll send you the file.

CentiPoise is a unit of absolute viscosity. Absolute viscosity = kinematic viscosity X density. Absolute viscosity is viscosity of a fluid under pressure. Kinematic viscosity is viscosity of a fluid under the influence of gravity.

More on viscosity:
http://www.lubrizol.com/LubeTheory/theory.htm#viscosity

 

[Giles]

Jay, check your PM's. The lubrizol link was also informative

 

[MikeC]

I saw lots of nice MB and BMW's at the auto show and there little Mobil 1 oil caps.

These oils have to be fine if they are used in all high end cars.

[ January 17, 2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: MikeC ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeC:
I saw lots of nice MB and BMW's at the auto show and there little Mobil 1 oil caps.

These oils have to be fine if they are used in all high end cars.

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While I agree that Mobil 1 is a good oil, just because it's factory fill doesn't mean it's the best. Mobil is always a good candidate for factory fills because it's available worldwide. Plus Exxon/Mobil has the $$$ to go for big contracts like this, while the specialty oil companies will never be able to land such lucrative factory fill contracts.

 

[buster]

True, Exxon Mobil is a very powerful company, which is why they have these contracts. I do think though, Mobil can compete with any specialty brand out there, like Amsoil/Redline. For the last 20K I've been using Amsoil, but this site has should me that in the real world, M1 can hold it's own against any of these, and it is an OTC oil. Plus, when MB or BMW develop new engines and demand a specific oil testing, ExxonMobil has the R&D and chemists to meet there demands within a blink of an eye. You'll find all oils have there good and bad qualitys. M1 may have thined out, but now SS has Moly.
Patman, do the M1 SS still thin out? I thought this problem was addressed when SS came out?

[ January 18, 2003, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[buster]

Today is a day where synthetic oil is great to have. This morning the temp. was -5F degrees. I going upstate this weekend where it may go as low as -12F.

 

[Patman]

Buster, most of the SuperSyn results we've seen have shown their 5w30 doesn't thin out like the TriSyn used to, although there have been a couple of instances where it has thinned. I would say based on what we've seen so far, that the SuperSyn 5w30 stays in grade longer than the TriSynthetic did. Although my wife's 5k results on TriSyn looked good, the viscosity was 10.2 (starting point on TriSyn 5w30 is 10.0)

 

[buster]

Thansk Patman. How about the 10w-30 M1 SS? I assume it stays in grade and would be a good summer choice.

 

[TooSlick]

YZF150,

I have been primarily using 0w-30 synthetics for the past eight years in a variety of applications, including my John Deere riding mower. I have seen NO problems with shearing or oil consumption and fuel efficiency is approx 3% better than the Amsoil 10w-30 synthetic I was using in all my vehicles/equipment. I think the 0w-30 and even 0w-20 synthetics are the wave of the future ....For worn engines I think that a 5w-40 synlube like Delvac 1 is the way to go ....

TooSlick

 

[bluedevils]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
I have been primarily using 0w-30 synthetics for the past eight years in a variety of applications, including my John Deere riding mower. I have seen NO problems with shearing or oil consumption and fuel efficiency is approx 3% better...

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So, TooSlick, how many MPG does your John Deere tractor deliver?

 

[Patman]

For a lawn tractor maybe MPG stands for Mowings Per Gallon!

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Thansk Patman. How about the 10w-30 M1 SS? I assume it stays in grade and would be a good summer choice.

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Yes, the 10w30 would be even more shear stable and is a good summer choice. In a lot of cars it will work all year round pretty well too, as long as you don't live in an area that goes way below zero a lot (and then I'd say to go for 5w30 or 0w30)

 

[TooSlick]

bluedevils,

Well right now it's sitting locked up in my shed in 15F weather, so it's getting amazing mileage

The main thing I've noticed with small engines running synthetic lubes like Mobil 1 is that they generate more power and they seem to run cooler. The spark plugs seem to stay pretty clean as well. The JD is well engineered and has spin on oil filters for both the engine and hydrostatic transmission. This is the first one I've owned and I'm very impressed with the design for servicability aspect of it. My two stroke stuff is all Stihl now - I hate having to fix stuff that breaks - and I've been very impressed with their equipment as well.

TooSlick

 

[Mark in NY]

I think that the previous comment in this forum was on target - 0-30 and 0-40 oils (and maybe 0-20) are the wave of the future. Somewhere in either the technical or business literature this past year, Mobil described the benefits of the merge with Exxon. The claim was that both had advanced synthetic lube labs and by combining their tech knowledge they were now able to produce a better product by more accurately producing moecules with the desired size etc. From what they said, the new (zero weight) oils have a higher natural VI.
I am a proponent of heavier weight oils so I use 0-40. If I were to use a 30 weight, my first choice would be the new 0-30 over 5- or 10- flavors. I had no consumption problems with 0-30 when I used it a year ago.
The temp vs viscosity charts of Mobil-1 show how the graphs cross over one another - 0-30 is both thinner at the freezing point and thicker at 212F than 5-30 or 10-30, although the difference is rather slight.