Is Mobil 3309 the Same as Toyota T-IV Tranny Fluid
- Thread starter dmk
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YES
Yes the two are the same. Here are some links for reading up on this trany fluid.
Synthetic Toyota T-IV?
Toyota T-IV = Dextron III ?
JWS 3309/ Mobil 3309/ Toyota T-IV, synthetic yet?
Enjoy.
Synthetic Toyota T-IV?
Toyota T-IV = Dextron III ?
JWS 3309/ Mobil 3309/ Toyota T-IV, synthetic yet?
Enjoy.
Oh... I completely forgot,
to BITOG.
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Oh... I completely forgot,
to BITOG.
Thanks! But actually I've been a member for many years but couldn't log in properly so had to get a new user id. I was either SilverFlash or Cosmicflash...
So these fluids are identical? Who makes the Toyota fluid you think?
I could just go to the Toytota dealer and replace the oem fluid with it?
Oh... I completely forgot,
Thanks! But actually I've been a member for many years but couldn't log in properly so had to get a new user id. I was either SilverFlash or Cosmicflash...
So these fluids are identical? Who makes the Toyota fluid you think?
I could just go to the Toytota dealer and replace the oem fluid with it?
Originally Posted By: dmk
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Oh... I completely forgot,
to BITOG.
Thanks! But actually I've been a member for many years but couldn't log in properly so had to get a new user id. I was either SilverFlash or Cosmicflash...
So these fluids are identical? Who makes the Toyota fluid you think?
I could just go to the Toytota dealer and replace the oem fluid with it?
Yup, the Mobil 3309 and Toyota T-IV are identical. They are just bottled differently. In fact, the Toyota owner's manual states that you can use Genuine T-IV or JWS3309.
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Oh... I completely forgot,
Thanks! But actually I've been a member for many years but couldn't log in properly so had to get a new user id. I was either SilverFlash or Cosmicflash...
So these fluids are identical? Who makes the Toyota fluid you think?
I could just go to the Toytota dealer and replace the oem fluid with it?
Yup, the Mobil 3309 and Toyota T-IV are identical. They are just bottled differently. In fact, the Toyota owner's manual states that you can use Genuine T-IV or JWS3309.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: dmk
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Oh... I completely forgot,
to BITOG.
Thanks! But actually I've been a member for many years but couldn't log in properly so had to get a new user id. I was either SilverFlash or Cosmicflash...
So these fluids are identical? Who makes the Toyota fluid you think?
I could just go to the Toytota dealer and replace the oem fluid with it?
Yup, the Mobil 3309 and Toyota T-IV are identical. They are just bottled differently. In fact, the Toyota owner's manual states that you can use Genuine T-IV or JWS3309.
Good deal.
So any fluid that meets the T-IV spec is ok? Or should I stick with the oem Toyota fluid?
Originally Posted By: dmk
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Oh... I completely forgot,
Thanks! But actually I've been a member for many years but couldn't log in properly so had to get a new user id. I was either SilverFlash or Cosmicflash...
So these fluids are identical? Who makes the Toyota fluid you think?
I could just go to the Toytota dealer and replace the oem fluid with it?
Yup, the Mobil 3309 and Toyota T-IV are identical. They are just bottled differently. In fact, the Toyota owner's manual states that you can use Genuine T-IV or JWS3309.
Good deal.
So any fluid that meets the T-IV spec is ok? Or should I stick with the oem Toyota fluid?
Originally Posted By: dmk
Good deal.
So any fluid that meets the T-IV spec is ok? Or should I stick with the oem Toyota fluid?
Genuine Toyota T-IV and Mobil 3309 are the only OEM approved and licensed service fills for applications calling for T-IV. Toyota/Aisin does not have a fluid licensing program like GM, Ford and Chrysler do.
There are a number of fluids on the market that are recommended for use in T-IV applications. They are marketed under the "multi-vehicle" label, examples of which include Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle ATF, Valvoline Maxlife ATF and Amsoil ATF. These fluids are not tested and approved by the OEM. Instead, they have been field tested extensively by their additive supplier, but they definitely do not go through the same amount of testing as the OEM approved fluid. Lubrizol, a major additive supplier, is a big proponent of multi-vehicle fluids. You can read their propaganda for multi-vehicle products here:
http://assets.2tmedia.com/pr/pdfs/17/lubrizol_driveline_news_issue_1_2008.pdf
On the other hand, the Society of Automtive Engineers (SAE) has a published paper which states that multi-vehicle fluids are not optimal, and that OEM approved service fills are the correct choice:
http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2007-01-3987
You can read both and decide for yourself.
Good deal.
So any fluid that meets the T-IV spec is ok? Or should I stick with the oem Toyota fluid?
Genuine Toyota T-IV and Mobil 3309 are the only OEM approved and licensed service fills for applications calling for T-IV. Toyota/Aisin does not have a fluid licensing program like GM, Ford and Chrysler do.
There are a number of fluids on the market that are recommended for use in T-IV applications. They are marketed under the "multi-vehicle" label, examples of which include Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle ATF, Valvoline Maxlife ATF and Amsoil ATF. These fluids are not tested and approved by the OEM. Instead, they have been field tested extensively by their additive supplier, but they definitely do not go through the same amount of testing as the OEM approved fluid. Lubrizol, a major additive supplier, is a big proponent of multi-vehicle fluids. You can read their propaganda for multi-vehicle products here:
http://assets.2tmedia.com/pr/pdfs/17/lubrizol_driveline_news_issue_1_2008.pdf
On the other hand, the Society of Automtive Engineers (SAE) has a published paper which states that multi-vehicle fluids are not optimal, and that OEM approved service fills are the correct choice:
http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2007-01-3987
You can read both and decide for yourself.
I tend to be cautious when using fluids. Toyota T-IV & Mobil #3309 are the "APPROVED ATF fluids. There are others Labeled "Suitable". Suitable may be OK but not the best or approved for the application.
TIV=3309
here is a bottle of the Mazda version of it
here is a bottle of the Mazda version of it
T-IV/3309 has been around for a long LONG time. It is nothing special whatsoever. It wasn't all that great when it 1st came out and it is even less special these days. I just don't understand people that act like it is something unique and tell others only T-IV fluid can be used in the tranny or you will have problems? Where is the proof of that? There is none is the answer.
There are always some fluids that are not able to be replaced by an aftermarket or aftermarket multi use fluid for a while. ATF+4, Dex VI, Mercon V, etc... Usually when they first come out there is nothing in the aftermarket to replace them with then slowly they either come out as a direct replacement or as part of the universal fluids. It takes a while for the aftermarket to formulate to cover them. T-IV is not one of them at this time. It has been YEARS now in which the universal ATF's have covered T-IV/3309.
Stop for a second and think about it. Why wouldn't there be an aftermarket T-IV( Mobil 3309 is it )if it was so special and the universal fluids couldn't cover it? If that were the case we would see bottles of T-IV being offered by all the fluid mfg's as it is a fluid that is still being used and there would be a lot of demand for it. There is no need for a specific T-IV because the universal/multi-vehicle fluids work as good as, and usually better than, the T-IV itself.
People have been using the universal ATF's that claim T-IV compatibility for years and years and more miles than you could shake a stick at and done just fine. Certainly if T-IV was so special and required you to only use the OE fluid or have issues we would have heard of it by now for sure. All we hear from those that have made the switch is that shifting has improved.
This obsession some have with only using OEM certified fluids( ATF type, oil standards, etc... )just amazes me. When a fluid mfg puts a recommendation on their bottle you can rest assured they have verified it works/passes. Otherwise they are going to be responsible if things breakdown( fluids fault ).
The bottom line is you are not going to wreck your tranny using a universal ATF that says it works with T-IV/3309. Actually, I would wager you will actually see an improvement in shift performance and maybe even tranny life. Especially if you use a quality synthetic ATF like Royal Purple, Amsoil, Redline, etc...
T-IV/3309 is nothing special.
There are always some fluids that are not able to be replaced by an aftermarket or aftermarket multi use fluid for a while. ATF+4, Dex VI, Mercon V, etc... Usually when they first come out there is nothing in the aftermarket to replace them with then slowly they either come out as a direct replacement or as part of the universal fluids. It takes a while for the aftermarket to formulate to cover them. T-IV is not one of them at this time. It has been YEARS now in which the universal ATF's have covered T-IV/3309.
Stop for a second and think about it. Why wouldn't there be an aftermarket T-IV( Mobil 3309 is it )if it was so special and the universal fluids couldn't cover it? If that were the case we would see bottles of T-IV being offered by all the fluid mfg's as it is a fluid that is still being used and there would be a lot of demand for it. There is no need for a specific T-IV because the universal/multi-vehicle fluids work as good as, and usually better than, the T-IV itself.
People have been using the universal ATF's that claim T-IV compatibility for years and years and more miles than you could shake a stick at and done just fine. Certainly if T-IV was so special and required you to only use the OE fluid or have issues we would have heard of it by now for sure. All we hear from those that have made the switch is that shifting has improved.
This obsession some have with only using OEM certified fluids( ATF type, oil standards, etc... )just amazes me. When a fluid mfg puts a recommendation on their bottle you can rest assured they have verified it works/passes. Otherwise they are going to be responsible if things breakdown( fluids fault ).
The bottom line is you are not going to wreck your tranny using a universal ATF that says it works with T-IV/3309. Actually, I would wager you will actually see an improvement in shift performance and maybe even tranny life. Especially if you use a quality synthetic ATF like Royal Purple, Amsoil, Redline, etc...
T-IV/3309 is nothing special.
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The quality and its ability to hold up can only be gauged via a UOA and not by its looks, color or pkging.
M1 ATF is packaged very well with shiny bottles but my maxima will chew it up in less that 15K miles. So.......
M1 ATF is packaged very well with shiny bottles but my maxima will chew it up in less that 15K miles. So.......
Kestas
Staff member
ATF 3309 may be nothing special, but it's still a mystery to me what it really is. Ideally, I'd like to see a spreadsheet of all the popular ATFs on the market with their respective properties so we can actually make an intelligent choice for substitution. All this hand waving doesn't do it for me. The properties should include:
- viscosity
- friction characteristics
- shear stability
- antifoaming
(anything else?)
Lubes 'n Greases recently had a good article on the different ATFs. Unfortunately they left out ATF 3309.
- viscosity
- friction characteristics
- shear stability
- antifoaming
(anything else?)
Lubes 'n Greases recently had a good article on the different ATFs. Unfortunately they left out ATF 3309.
from another post:
This is 3rd-4th party info I read from a volvo forum a while ago. Said that T-IV (JWS3309, also used in volvo AisinWarner ATs) has same friction/VI properties as Dex 3. It was developed with a much more robust package when aisin-warner (used in toyo, volvo, jeep, others) began using torque converters with the partial lockup algorithm. The partial lock operation was very hard on fluids and required a sturdier fluid to hold up over time.
IF that's all true, +1 for the M1 syn atf. Also makes DexVI a remote possibility...
M
This is 3rd-4th party info I read from a volvo forum a while ago. Said that T-IV (JWS3309, also used in volvo AisinWarner ATs) has same friction/VI properties as Dex 3. It was developed with a much more robust package when aisin-warner (used in toyo, volvo, jeep, others) began using torque converters with the partial lockup algorithm. The partial lock operation was very hard on fluids and required a sturdier fluid to hold up over time.
IF that's all true, +1 for the M1 syn atf. Also makes DexVI a remote possibility...
M
Someone on this NG posted Toyota was selling T-IV for ~ $5.75 I believe.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
When a fluid mfg puts a recommendation on their bottle you can rest assured they have verified it works/passes. Otherwise they are going to be responsible if things breakdown( fluids fault ).
The additive supplier is the one that will determine compatibility for a particular application. The fluid does not go through the same amount of testing as the factory fill, but the additive company does claim to field test the product extensively in "popular" applications.
Also, it is extremely difficult to prove a fluid related failure, so your chances of getting them to pay out a claim are pretty slim.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Someone on this NG posted Toyota was selling T-IV for ~ $5.75 I believe.
The prices vary significantly. One dealer in San Jose, CA, sells it for $5.00/qt. The dealer here in Santa Cruz, CA, sells it for $8.99/qt.
When a fluid mfg puts a recommendation on their bottle you can rest assured they have verified it works/passes. Otherwise they are going to be responsible if things breakdown( fluids fault ).
The additive supplier is the one that will determine compatibility for a particular application. The fluid does not go through the same amount of testing as the factory fill, but the additive company does claim to field test the product extensively in "popular" applications.
Also, it is extremely difficult to prove a fluid related failure, so your chances of getting them to pay out a claim are pretty slim.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Someone on this NG posted Toyota was selling T-IV for ~ $5.75 I believe.
The prices vary significantly. One dealer in San Jose, CA, sells it for $5.00/qt. The dealer here in Santa Cruz, CA, sells it for $8.99/qt.
Hey Cosmicflash! You still driving your 9-3?
My girlfriend has a 04 Saturn Ion with the 5 speed Aisin. I did 3 drain and fills over a week, 4 quarts came out each time. The cheapest place I found this fluid was at my local Toyota dealer. I paid $54.00 for a case. I called Saturn, Ford, Mazda, Napa. Just ask for a discount if you buy a whole case. They usually give it to you.
Mobil makes all the clones of 3309 fluid. Same Mobil bottle too.
My girlfriend has a 04 Saturn Ion with the 5 speed Aisin. I did 3 drain and fills over a week, 4 quarts came out each time. The cheapest place I found this fluid was at my local Toyota dealer. I paid $54.00 for a case. I called Saturn, Ford, Mazda, Napa. Just ask for a discount if you buy a whole case. They usually give it to you.
Mobil makes all the clones of 3309 fluid. Same Mobil bottle too.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
T-IV/3309 has been around for a long LONG time. It is nothing special whatsoever.
Don't get too carried away there.
My Saturn dealer told me to put regular Dex/Merc in my Vue (Aisin 5 speed). Quite a bit later, I figured out it was supposed to have T-IV. Up until very recently, everything seemed to be fine with the Dex/Merc.
The first drain/refill was with Pennzoil YB Dex/Merc.
The second drain/refill was with Valvoline Dex/Merc. It lasted about 7 thousand miles before it was causing problems.
In the thousand or two miles between that post, and when I flushed it to I-IV, things changed. At first, the shift points moved. My wife noticed it would rev higher before shifting. She noticed this because she drives very gently, and rarely saw the tack go up. Then one day she called me at work to say it wouldn't reengage for a seconds after a shift. She let off the accelerator and coasted a bit, then tried again and it went.
I did a cooler line flush running 10 quarts of Toyota T-IV through it, and it is back to normal.
The first drain/refill would have left about 50% T-IV. The second would have left 25%. I'm guessing that either 75% dex/merc was too weak, or Valvoline's isn't as sturdy as Pennzoils.
From everything I've read, T-IV seems to be a bit heavier duty version of Dex/Merc. So while there may not be anything mysterious about it, one should be careful what they use in place of it.
BTW, My local Toyota dealer sells their T-IV for $4.32/qt.
T-IV/3309 has been around for a long LONG time. It is nothing special whatsoever.
Don't get too carried away there.
My Saturn dealer told me to put regular Dex/Merc in my Vue (Aisin 5 speed). Quite a bit later, I figured out it was supposed to have T-IV. Up until very recently, everything seemed to be fine with the Dex/Merc.
The first drain/refill was with Pennzoil YB Dex/Merc.
The second drain/refill was with Valvoline Dex/Merc. It lasted about 7 thousand miles before it was causing problems.
In the thousand or two miles between that post, and when I flushed it to I-IV, things changed. At first, the shift points moved. My wife noticed it would rev higher before shifting. She noticed this because she drives very gently, and rarely saw the tack go up. Then one day she called me at work to say it wouldn't reengage for a seconds after a shift. She let off the accelerator and coasted a bit, then tried again and it went.
I did a cooler line flush running 10 quarts of Toyota T-IV through it, and it is back to normal.
The first drain/refill would have left about 50% T-IV. The second would have left 25%. I'm guessing that either 75% dex/merc was too weak, or Valvoline's isn't as sturdy as Pennzoils.
From everything I've read, T-IV seems to be a bit heavier duty version of Dex/Merc. So while there may not be anything mysterious about it, one should be careful what they use in place of it.
BTW, My local Toyota dealer sells their T-IV for $4.32/qt.
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
Hey Cosmicflash! You still driving your 9-3?
My girlfriend has a 04 Saturn Ion with the 5 speed Aisin. I did 3 drain and fills over a week, 4 quarts came out each time. The cheapest place I found this fluid was at my local Toyota dealer. I paid $54.00 for a case. I called Saturn, Ford, Mazda, Napa. Just ask for a discount if you buy a whole case. They usually give it to you.
Mobil makes all the clones of 3309 fluid. Same Mobil bottle too.
Hey Finklejag! Good to see you're still around. We miss you at SC. I think someone just reposted one of your photo threads on oil changes or something yesterday--caught the cosmic blue paint!
Got 53,000 mi. on the 06' Aero SC. You still driving the little Nissan?
Perhaps you should get back in the Saab family again--they are pretty much giving them away these days (as with many vehicles I guess)
Hey Cosmicflash! You still driving your 9-3?
My girlfriend has a 04 Saturn Ion with the 5 speed Aisin. I did 3 drain and fills over a week, 4 quarts came out each time. The cheapest place I found this fluid was at my local Toyota dealer. I paid $54.00 for a case. I called Saturn, Ford, Mazda, Napa. Just ask for a discount if you buy a whole case. They usually give it to you.
Mobil makes all the clones of 3309 fluid. Same Mobil bottle too.
Hey Finklejag! Good to see you're still around. We miss you at SC. I think someone just reposted one of your photo threads on oil changes or something yesterday--caught the cosmic blue paint!
Got 53,000 mi. on the 06' Aero SC. You still driving the little Nissan?
Perhaps you should get back in the Saab family again--they are pretty much giving them away these days (as with many vehicles I guess)
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