Is Liquimoly Overrated?

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Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
One other comment I have w/r to the LM or any other higher-price "boutique" oil - I never see any users of those oils saying that your Supertech/Wallyworld/whatever oils are inferior....but I sure do read a lot of those users busting on those that spend more money on the more expensive LM-type oils. Just sayin'. As I said in a post above, to each their own and the lower-priced stuff is your jam, cool! I'm sure those oils work great too.

LM is not boutique oil. LM is not 90Schilling, it is Budweiser.


I should have said "boutique" - may bad and not my intent - but here in the U.S., this is somewhat of a "boutique" oil vs. Castrol/M1 etc. was my point. Yes, it's nothing fancy but people assume it is b/c of it's higher price. It's like VW....the Ford of Germany!


To be fair, Liqui Moly's marketing implies it's some magical German WunderÖl that will make your engine form into Voltron, and they make sure to plaster their MADE IN GERMANY logos everywhere they can so people will assume it's lovingly crafted by some lederhosen wearing Aryan superman rather than made with a machine that performs exactly the same in Shanghai or Detroit as it does in Berlin.
 
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
But Motul is made in France...


And you'd never know it looking at the bottle, either. While Liqui Moly has MADE IN GERMANY plastered right on the front of every jug, like it actually means something.
 
It is in fact made in Germany so what is the issue? The Germans have always been know to produce high quality stuff and all of their oil for world-wide consumption is produced there. It's not false advertising.
 
Originally Posted by TiGeo
It is in fact made in Germany so what is the issue? The Germans have always been know to produce high quality stuff and all of their oil for world-wide consumption is produced there. It's not false advertising.

Liqui Moly is one of the most egregious original sinners behind Hydro-Cracked oil. As soon as HC technology became available, they switched to HC and advertised it as holy grail (this was in some 1997-1999).
It is OK oil, but compared to other available oils? NO!
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
It is in fact made in Germany so what is the issue? The Germans have always been know to produce high quality stuff and all of their oil for world-wide consumption is produced there. It's not false advertising.

Liqui Moly is one of the most egregious original sinners behind Hydro-Cracked oil. As soon as HC technology became available, they switched to HC and advertised it as holy grail (this was in some 1997-1999).
It is OK oil, but compared to other available oils? NO!


HC meaning Group 3?
 
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
It is in fact made in Germany so what is the issue? The Germans have always been know to produce high quality stuff and all of their oil for world-wide consumption is produced there. It's not false advertising.

Liqui Moly is one of the most egregious original sinners behind Hydro-Cracked oil. As soon as HC technology became available, they switched to HC and advertised it as holy grail (this was in some 1997-1999).
It is OK oil, but compared to other available oils? NO!


HC meaning Group 3?


Ya.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
It is in fact made in Germany so what is the issue? The Germans have always been know to produce high quality stuff and all of their oil for world-wide consumption is produced there. It's not false advertising.

Liqui Moly is one of the most egregious original sinners behind Hydro-Cracked oil. As soon as HC technology became available, they switched to HC and advertised it as holy grail (this was in some 1997-1999).
It is OK oil, but compared to other available oils? NO!


HC meaning Group 3?


Ya.


Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?
 
Originally Posted by TiGeo



Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?


IMO nothing, but it does rub some consumers the wrong way when a cheaper component doesn't result in a comparatively lower price. It's part of building trust with the consumer.

LM has some really interesting products which I would love to try but not on my BMW. I'm selling it and I don't want to screw it up.
 
Last edited:
Quote
Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?

Nothing is wrong, it is just average for the price of true synthetic. So, if I am ready to shell out more money, I would buy Castrol Edge 0W30, which is Groupo IV and generally great oil.
That is the problem, Lm is selling their products as some uber oil, which is far from it, for the price of oils that are true synthetics.
My point was that LM is more focused on marketing, not building reputation for great products. In 1997-1999 when this happened, before LM encroached on US market, most 0/5W40 oils ACEA A3/B3 B4 were full synthetic. Castrol started HC thing in US, but in Europe, in ACE A3 category, all played with full synthetic oils, GRIV and V. LM was the one to flood the markets with HC oil, which they, of course, advertised as far better than anything else, with oversized Made in Germany signs.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by TiGeo



Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?


IMO nothing, but it does rub some consumers the wrong way when a cheaper component doesn't result in a comparatively lower price. It's part of building trust with the consumer.

LM has some really interesting products which I would love to try but not on my BMW. I'm selling it and I don't want to screw it up.


Which products?
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?

Nothing is wrong, it is just average for the price of true synthetic. So, if I am ready to shell out more money, I would buy Castrol Edge 0W30, which is Groupo IV and generally great oil.
That is the problem, Lm is selling their products as some uber oil, which is far from it, for the price of oils that are true synthetics.
My point was that LM is more focused on marketing, not building reputation for great products. In 1997-1999 when this happened, before LM encroached on US market, most 0/5W40 oils ACEA A3/B3 B4 were full synthetic. Castrol started HC thing in US, but in Europe, in ACE A3 category, all played with full synthetic oils, GRIV and V. LM was the one to flood the markets with HC oil, which they, of course, advertised as far better than anything else, with oversized Made in Germany signs.


The Castrol Edge 0w30 (and 0w40) is a Group III/IV blend basestock, according to the SDS (2019 for 0w30 and 2018 for 0w40), with Group IV making up 25 to 50% of the basestock.
 
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?

Nothing is wrong, it is just average for the price of true synthetic. So, if I am ready to shell out more money, I would buy Castrol Edge 0W30, which is Groupo IV and generally great oil.
That is the problem, Lm is selling their products as some uber oil, which is far from it, for the price of oils that are true synthetics.
My point was that LM is more focused on marketing, not building reputation for great products. In 1997-1999 when this happened, before LM encroached on US market, most 0/5W40 oils ACEA A3/B3 B4 were full synthetic. Castrol started HC thing in US, but in Europe, in ACE A3 category, all played with full synthetic oils, GRIV and V. LM was the one to flood the markets with HC oil, which they, of course, advertised as far better than anything else, with oversized Made in Germany signs.


The Castrol Edge 0w30 (and 0w40) is a Group III/IV blend basestock, according to the SDS (2019 for 0w30 and 2018 for 0w40), with Group IV making up 25 to 50% of the basestock.


What does that actually matter...in reality for normal users/normal OCIs? Nothing. It's the cost that hangs folks up w/LM. If it was $22/5L with rebates at Walmart, folks wouldn't bat an eye. I like the product and supporting the Euro tuning outfits that sells it. They are active in the Euro motorsports scene. Again, we all get to support who we want with our dollars and if Mobil/Walmart are you jam, great! I agree with many others, it's not magical, it's just a high-quality oil similar to many others with the same approvals.
 
Quote
What does that actually matter...in reality for normal users/normal OCIs? Nothing. It's the cost that hangs folks up w/LM. If it was $22/5L with rebates at Walmart, folks wouldn't bat an eye. I like the product and supporting the Euro tuning outfits that sells it. They are active in the Euro motorsports scene. Again, we all get to support who we want with our dollars and if Mobil/Walmart are you jam, great! I agree with many others, it's not magical, it's just a high-quality oil similar to many others with the same approvals.

If it was $22 5qt in Wal Mart, sure, if Mobil1, Valvoline MST, Castrole Edge or Pennzoil Euro are not available.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?

Nothing is wrong, it is just average for the price of true synthetic. So, if I am ready to shell out more money, I would buy Castrol Edge 0W30, which is Groupo IV and generally great oil.
That is the problem, Lm is selling their products as some uber oil, which is far from it, for the price of oils that are true synthetics.
My point was that LM is more focused on marketing, not building reputation for great products. In 1997-1999 when this happened, before LM encroached on US market, most 0/5W40 oils ACEA A3/B3 B4 were full synthetic. Castrol started HC thing in US, but in Europe, in ACE A3 category, all played with full synthetic oils, GRIV and V. LM was the one to flood the markets with HC oil, which they, of course, advertised as far better than anything else, with oversized Made in Germany signs.


The Castrol Edge 0w30 (and 0w40) is a Group III/IV blend basestock, according to the SDS (2019 for 0w30 and 2018 for 0w40), with Group IV making up 25 to 50% of the basestock.

I did not see new 0W30 SDS. I saw 0W40. Interestingly there is no new PDS. Did they achieve same performance using different composition? That is what I would like to know.
 
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by TiGeo



Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?


IMO nothing, but it does rub some consumers the wrong way when a cheaper component doesn't result in a comparatively lower price. It's part of building trust with the consumer.

LM has some really interesting products which I would love to try but not on my BMW. I'm selling it and I don't want to screw it up.


Which products?



Engine flush and fuel additives. I know they're unnecessary but the temptation is strong.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?

Nothing is wrong, it is just average for the price of true synthetic. So, if I am ready to shell out more money, I would buy Castrol Edge 0W30, which is Groupo IV and generally great oil.
That is the problem, Lm is selling their products as some uber oil, which is far from it, for the price of oils that are true synthetics.
My point was that LM is more focused on marketing, not building reputation for great products. In 1997-1999 when this happened, before LM encroached on US market, most 0/5W40 oils ACEA A3/B3 B4 were full synthetic. Castrol started HC thing in US, but in Europe, in ACE A3 category, all played with full synthetic oils, GRIV and V. LM was the one to flood the markets with HC oil, which they, of course, advertised as far better than anything else, with oversized Made in Germany signs.


The Castrol Edge 0w30 (and 0w40) is a Group III/IV blend basestock, according to the SDS (2019 for 0w30 and 2018 for 0w40), with Group IV making up 25 to 50% of the basestock.

I did not see new 0W30 SDS. I saw 0W40. Interestingly there is no new PDS. Did they achieve same performance using different composition? That is what I would like to know.


https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/C078CF625AFE007B8025840E00528391/$File/2486738.pdf
Note: It also says:
"Any concentration shown as a range is to protect confidentiality or is due to batch variation."

PDS (28 Dec 2018)
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/2361E4CB24F012588025837100563324/$File/BPXE-B8779R.pdf
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by TiGeo



Ok...what is actually wrong with Group 3 oils? Isn't that what the vast majority of "synthetic" oils are today (or at least the majority of the base stocks used) including the common Wallyworld Castrol/M1? I believe the hangup is in the name correct so they really should be called "synthetic blends" vs. "full synthetic"? I also understand that in Europe, LM can't call say the Leichtlauf High Tech that I use in my VW a "fully synthetic motor oil" and here they do?


IMO nothing, but it does rub some consumers the wrong way when a cheaper component doesn't result in a comparatively lower price. It's part of building trust with the consumer.

LM has some really interesting products which I would love to try but not on my BMW. I'm selling it and I don't want to screw it up.


Which products?



Engine flush and fuel additives. I know they're unnecessary but the temptation is strong.


Won't hurt anything. I'll be using Ceratec next change.
 
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


Engine flush and fuel additives. I know they're unnecessary but the temptation is strong.


Won't hurt anything. I'll be using Ceratec next change.


I worry about that product having a negative impact on my VVT hardware. Especially the solenoids. No way would I use it for my particular engine.
 
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