My '99 Jeep TJ has been a fantastic vehicle to own. I bought shortly before "merger of equals" took effect and am so glad I did. It has a little over 100k on it now and spends most of it's time parked in a garage up north, but I'll never sell my Jeep! Love it!
Is Jeep still making good vehicles
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Never saw a Chrysler product that I liked.
I would never buy any new jeep
they aren't what they used to be.......
some rare gems escape out the factory that are reliable, but that doesn't make that particular car/CUV a good JEEP........
the compass reminds me of a PT Cruiser underneath.....
how can u have a FWD based Jeep and call it a good JEEP, no matter how well it drives or how reliable it is over your 150k miles of highway commuting..... thats not what a jeep is for.
There are so many other better vehicles out there that will work better/cheaper/easier for the purpose 96% of people buying new jeeps are going to use them for......
they aren't what they used to be.......
some rare gems escape out the factory that are reliable, but that doesn't make that particular car/CUV a good JEEP........
the compass reminds me of a PT Cruiser underneath.....
how can u have a FWD based Jeep and call it a good JEEP, no matter how well it drives or how reliable it is over your 150k miles of highway commuting..... thats not what a jeep is for.
There are so many other better vehicles out there that will work better/cheaper/easier for the purpose 96% of people buying new jeeps are going to use them for......
Jeep is still the same Chrysler junk that has been plagued with electronic issues from birth. If it had a carburetor a solid axle and a lever type transfer case then it just might be decent. But it isn't. The last good jeep that went off the line was in the eighties if that says anything. Chrysler shoulda went broke and died.
Any Jeep with solid axles is generally pretty good. The newer Grand Cherokees, etc, aren't bad vehicles, but they're not exactly true to the Jeep brand. Things like that are why I cling to my ZJ (4 doors, comfy, solid axles, big V8, lever to shift the t-case).
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Any Jeep with solid axles is generally pretty good. The newer Grand Cherokees, etc, aren't bad vehicles, but they're not exactly true to the Jeep brand. Things like that are why I cling to my ZJ (4 doors, comfy, solid axles, big V8, lever to shift the t-case).
I kinda like this statement- pretty accurate. the NAME does not mean what it used to.
I think the compass is based on the neon, BTW.
I think much of Jeep is just brand recognition now... for $30+k you can get other vehicles with equal capability and perhaps better reliability.
My 08 has never let me down but there are obvious nit-n-noid quality issues here and there.
It is not nearly as "fun" as the older grand chero's were.
I really like my jeep. But if I ever buy another, it will be used, pre-2011. I just don't think the newer ones are anything but "image."
Harsh opinion, but it's my own....
Mike
Any Jeep with solid axles is generally pretty good. The newer Grand Cherokees, etc, aren't bad vehicles, but they're not exactly true to the Jeep brand. Things like that are why I cling to my ZJ (4 doors, comfy, solid axles, big V8, lever to shift the t-case).
I kinda like this statement- pretty accurate. the NAME does not mean what it used to.
I think the compass is based on the neon, BTW.
I think much of Jeep is just brand recognition now... for $30+k you can get other vehicles with equal capability and perhaps better reliability.
My 08 has never let me down but there are obvious nit-n-noid quality issues here and there.
It is not nearly as "fun" as the older grand chero's were.
I really like my jeep. But if I ever buy another, it will be used, pre-2011. I just don't think the newer ones are anything but "image."
Harsh opinion, but it's my own....
Mike
We have a couple of 2010 Wranglers at work. I'm not impressed with the quality and the sound of V6 just is bizarre in that kind of vehicle.
They calibrated the suspension to be more "daily-driver" and in the process made something that handles like a shopping cart and pitches, rolls, and dives like a 75 Electra.
Just not my thing I guess.
They calibrated the suspension to be more "daily-driver" and in the process made something that handles like a shopping cart and pitches, rolls, and dives like a 75 Electra.
Just not my thing I guess.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IMO if your looking for a new Wrangler 2012 is the year. Pentastar 3.6 and a WA580 automatic transmission is a major step forward from the 3.8L and the 4 speed AT they had. If you are looking for a maunal tranny then the only change from 2011 to 2012 is the engine. That alone is worth the admission. I think their quality is actually very good and improving. JMO
I thought the Pentastat 3.6 was a total mismatch in this application-a car engine in a heavy vehicle is not fun to drive, as it should be
IMO if your looking for a new Wrangler 2012 is the year. Pentastar 3.6 and a WA580 automatic transmission is a major step forward from the 3.8L and the 4 speed AT they had. If you are looking for a maunal tranny then the only change from 2011 to 2012 is the engine. That alone is worth the admission. I think their quality is actually very good and improving. JMO
I thought the Pentastat 3.6 was a total mismatch in this application-a car engine in a heavy vehicle is not fun to drive, as it should be
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Are Jeeps the same durability as when they were made by AMC?
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^ For the most part, they're still pretty tough. Mine's been through a decent bit and always comes back asking for more. It's had its issues, but it's never left me stranded, and I wouldn't hesitate to load up a trailer, hook it up and drag it cross country on a moment's notice.
My 2011 Compass as surpassed my expectations. I didn't buy it to be a serious off road vehicle. I bought it in the intent of being a daily driver and to have the traction I need in these Iowa winters. I choose Jeep on the fact that our Ford Escape coughed up a spark plug after 145k miles.
Regarding the Wranglers, the JKs (2007+) 'wheel so much nicer than the TJs ever did. To the poster who asked about upgrades from a TJ to a JK, just look underneath. The TJ had a low-hanging transfer case that you had to buy a "tummy tuck" kit for to suck it up between the frame rails. They also had very short suspension arms that owners would often replace for "long arm" kits. My dad has done both (and so much more on their '06 Rubi). That's all eliminated on the JKs. The transfer case is tucked, the arms are longer, and they just crawl better. The JK Rubi package also raised the bar, pardon the pun, with an anti-roll bar that you can disconnect from the seat. TJs never had that, and that's a huge advantage off road.
Guys have upgraded from TJs to JKs left and right.
And dad is also. They just ordered a '12 model with the 3.6L engine/5A transmission. It should be ready in a few months. With as much equipment as he has in the '06, and as much money as they've spent upgrading it, they wouldn't sell it if it weren't for a demonstrably better vehicle. And a JK is that.
Guys have upgraded from TJs to JKs left and right.
And dad is also. They just ordered a '12 model with the 3.6L engine/5A transmission. It should be ready in a few months. With as much equipment as he has in the '06, and as much money as they've spent upgrading it, they wouldn't sell it if it weren't for a demonstrably better vehicle. And a JK is that.
Originally Posted By: meep
All jeeps run the same chrysler/daimler electronics.
I own an 08 grand cherokee, and it's basically a minivan with a good driveline, but typical chrysler electronics glitches (M-class was notorious for electronics problems), a front suspension that looks lock, stock, and barrel like a honda accord, and thin sheet metal. I do off-road mine some, and it DOES have generous suspension travel, but it is not as solid, in my opinion, than previous generations. The hood and one back door have never quite lined up correctly, right off the new car lot. I think the mechanicals will be fine, but am prepared for the same electronic woes that I faced in my aging town and country.
The wrangler still has a lot of its original pedigree, however. The 3.8 is a reliable engine, the frame is SOLID and it WILL walk right up the side of a mountain. It has similar electronics, however it appears better protected, better sealed, and hopefully will handle corrosion and wire rot better than other daimler products, just because it's packaged with more care.
I have owned 2 jeeps and like them for what they are. Keep in mind that the 4.0 ZJs and WJ's (grands gen 1 and 2) had reliable drivelines but nickel-and-dimed folks to death with creappy hvac problems of different sorts, various electronics woes, etc.
The 2011+ GC is a beautiful vehicle for what it is, tho it is complex, no solid axle, and to me is more of a mall crawler. For the money, you start to get a lot of different competition. The chrysler 3.6 should be a remarkable engine and is mated to a solid transmission.
That said, I'll prolly never go for one. I like solid axles, and I do tow--- and 4wd with 4 wheel independent suspension introduces 8 rubber boots that age, crack, and require replacement, bushing wear on all those suspension links, etc.. So.... in my opinion, if y'all are interested in a wrangler, do it, they are great. the other offerings.... meh kinda lukewarm.
also keep in mind, folks buy these things then cry about mpg. The wrangler is FUN and with the manual you can actually get decent mpg... and even when you don't, people tend to fall in love with them and the price at the pump is less of an emotional issue. The grands are more subdued, and if you use the a/c and crawl in traffic you will get less than sticker. 14-16 seems pretty typical real-world, and that's hard on folks. There's a lot of used cherokees out there.
my $0.02. Take it FWIW.
M
Well said. That about sums it up.
The ZJs and WJs definitely had their quirks, but you have love the general concept and design. There was really nothing else quite like them aside from the Range Rover, but those are at a whole different level of "issues" and not nearly as much fun. My friend had a 2000 4.7 WJ Limited that racked up 250K miles before being totalled in a parking lot. Everything electrical in the interior was problematic, and the weatherstripping and other items on and in the body were just falling apart, but it ran and drove great every day. It took more than its fair share of abuse and neglect too.
The 5.9 ZJ Limiteds are really awesome Jeeps. That's a lot of big V8 in a relatively small 4x4. They were prone to overheating because of that though.
All jeeps run the same chrysler/daimler electronics.
I own an 08 grand cherokee, and it's basically a minivan with a good driveline, but typical chrysler electronics glitches (M-class was notorious for electronics problems), a front suspension that looks lock, stock, and barrel like a honda accord, and thin sheet metal. I do off-road mine some, and it DOES have generous suspension travel, but it is not as solid, in my opinion, than previous generations. The hood and one back door have never quite lined up correctly, right off the new car lot. I think the mechanicals will be fine, but am prepared for the same electronic woes that I faced in my aging town and country.
The wrangler still has a lot of its original pedigree, however. The 3.8 is a reliable engine, the frame is SOLID and it WILL walk right up the side of a mountain. It has similar electronics, however it appears better protected, better sealed, and hopefully will handle corrosion and wire rot better than other daimler products, just because it's packaged with more care.
I have owned 2 jeeps and like them for what they are. Keep in mind that the 4.0 ZJs and WJ's (grands gen 1 and 2) had reliable drivelines but nickel-and-dimed folks to death with creappy hvac problems of different sorts, various electronics woes, etc.
The 2011+ GC is a beautiful vehicle for what it is, tho it is complex, no solid axle, and to me is more of a mall crawler. For the money, you start to get a lot of different competition. The chrysler 3.6 should be a remarkable engine and is mated to a solid transmission.
That said, I'll prolly never go for one. I like solid axles, and I do tow--- and 4wd with 4 wheel independent suspension introduces 8 rubber boots that age, crack, and require replacement, bushing wear on all those suspension links, etc.. So.... in my opinion, if y'all are interested in a wrangler, do it, they are great. the other offerings.... meh kinda lukewarm.
also keep in mind, folks buy these things then cry about mpg. The wrangler is FUN and with the manual you can actually get decent mpg... and even when you don't, people tend to fall in love with them and the price at the pump is less of an emotional issue. The grands are more subdued, and if you use the a/c and crawl in traffic you will get less than sticker. 14-16 seems pretty typical real-world, and that's hard on folks. There's a lot of used cherokees out there.
my $0.02. Take it FWIW.
M
Well said. That about sums it up.
The ZJs and WJs definitely had their quirks, but you have love the general concept and design. There was really nothing else quite like them aside from the Range Rover, but those are at a whole different level of "issues" and not nearly as much fun. My friend had a 2000 4.7 WJ Limited that racked up 250K miles before being totalled in a parking lot. Everything electrical in the interior was problematic, and the weatherstripping and other items on and in the body were just falling apart, but it ran and drove great every day. It took more than its fair share of abuse and neglect too.
The 5.9 ZJ Limiteds are really awesome Jeeps. That's a lot of big V8 in a relatively small 4x4. They were prone to overheating because of that though.
^ The 5.9 isn't too tough to keep cool as long as you make sure everything is good shape within the system. Not a lot of room for error though.
As far as gas mileage, I get 12 - 13 city, and 17 - 19 highway typically. I've seen 21 mpg once, with cruise set at 58, slight tailwind and mild hills. It gets decent mpg towing though, I got 12.8 mpg on flat ground in 3rd gear (could have seen 15 in OD), and 14 mpg up and down 7% grades in 3rd gear (never downshifted while climbing). I was pulling a 6x12 Uhaul at about 3k lbs. Keep in mind, I usually get about 17.5 mpg on that run without the trailer (cruise set at 60 with or without).
Also, in the ZJ, swapping the t-case to the 242 Selec-Trac unit made it much more fun to drive (real 2WD and big V8 =
) And that'll be getting even better soon, when I do a top end rebuild for a very slight combustion leak into the cooling system, as it's getting heads/cam/exhaust while it's apart
As far as gas mileage, I get 12 - 13 city, and 17 - 19 highway typically. I've seen 21 mpg once, with cruise set at 58, slight tailwind and mild hills. It gets decent mpg towing though, I got 12.8 mpg on flat ground in 3rd gear (could have seen 15 in OD), and 14 mpg up and down 7% grades in 3rd gear (never downshifted while climbing). I was pulling a 6x12 Uhaul at about 3k lbs. Keep in mind, I usually get about 17.5 mpg on that run without the trailer (cruise set at 60 with or without).
Also, in the ZJ, swapping the t-case to the 242 Selec-Trac unit made it much more fun to drive (real 2WD and big V8 =
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