is it true that all conventional 5W20 is semi syn
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Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol and others all have BOTH conventional and synthetic blends in 5W20. So the only way that would be true is if the oils marketed as "conventional" have a little bit of synthetic in them and those marketed as "blends" have a LOT of synthetic in them.
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Originally Posted By: kam327
Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol and others all have BOTH conventional and synthetic blends in 5W20. So the only way that would be true is if the oils marketed as "conventional" have a little bit of synthetic in them and those marketed as "blends" have a LOT of synthetic in them.
Not necessarily, mostly marketing. AFAIK there is no "in the books" law/definition on what percent of "syn" constitutes the blend. SO to go back to the question are most 5w20 conventionals blended with II+ (even III in some cases) absolutely. That is the only way they can meet the viscometric properties necessary. You can really see that in oils like Mobil Super 5000 5w20 v 5w30. Others you just have to read the spec sheets and determine which properties are most important to you ie cold weather (CCS, MRV) FP/NOACK etc.
Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol and others all have BOTH conventional and synthetic blends in 5W20. So the only way that would be true is if the oils marketed as "conventional" have a little bit of synthetic in them and those marketed as "blends" have a LOT of synthetic in them.
Not necessarily, mostly marketing. AFAIK there is no "in the books" law/definition on what percent of "syn" constitutes the blend. SO to go back to the question are most 5w20 conventionals blended with II+ (even III in some cases) absolutely. That is the only way they can meet the viscometric properties necessary. You can really see that in oils like Mobil Super 5000 5w20 v 5w30. Others you just have to read the spec sheets and determine which properties are most important to you ie cold weather (CCS, MRV) FP/NOACK etc.
Yes, most seem to be part dino (Synthetic blend) based, but a few are HC synthetics and I will have to check this but I think the Liqui Moly 5/20 is a G4 full synthetic. Most of the 0/20's seem to be HC synthetics.
There is a big difference in both add packs and base stock shear resistance between a supermarket or Fleabay special 5/20 and a major brand full synthetic 0/20.
There is a big difference in both add packs and base stock shear resistance between a supermarket or Fleabay special 5/20 and a major brand full synthetic 0/20.
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Easier to make a 5w20 than a 5w30 with NO synthetic basestocks - but since "synthetic" is an advertising term in the US where does that leave us? Many big name ILSAC approved "Fully Synthetic" motor oils have NO synthetic lubricant (Group IV and/or V stocks) in them at all. Dont read the label advertising given its all garbage - I cant believe how many on here chose Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum for cleaning since SOPUS pushes the cleaning aspect on the lube on the ad copy
Ignore the garbage on the label except for service category and the approval list and/or the API Starburst. Dont be a gullible sap.
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Easier to make a 5w20 than a 5w30 with NO synthetic basestocks - but since "synthetic" is an advertising term in the US where does that leave us? Many big name ILSAC approved "Fully Synthetic" motor oils have NO synthetic lubricant (Group IV and/or V stocks) in them at all. Dont read the label advertising given its all garbage - I cant believe how many on here chose Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum for cleaning since SOPUS pushes the cleaning aspect on the lube on the ad copy
Ignore the garbage on the label except for service category and the approval list and/or the API Starburst. Dont be a gullible sap.
I think the Sopus products clean very well Arc.
Easier to make a 5w20 than a 5w30 with NO synthetic basestocks - but since "synthetic" is an advertising term in the US where does that leave us? Many big name ILSAC approved "Fully Synthetic" motor oils have NO synthetic lubricant (Group IV and/or V stocks) in them at all. Dont read the label advertising given its all garbage - I cant believe how many on here chose Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum for cleaning since SOPUS pushes the cleaning aspect on the lube on the ad copy
I think the Sopus products clean very well Arc.
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Easier to make a 5w20 than a 5w30 with NO synthetic basestocks - but since "synthetic" is an advertising term in the US where does that leave us? Many big name ILSAC approved "Fully Synthetic" motor oils have NO synthetic lubricant (Group IV and/or V stocks) in them at all. Dont read the label advertising given its all garbage - I cant believe how many on here chose Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum for cleaning since SOPUS pushes the cleaning aspect on the lube on the ad copy
Ignore the garbage on the label except for service category and the approval list and/or the API Starburst. Dont be a gullible sap.
I think the Sopus products clean very well Arc.
+1 me too.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Easier to make a 5w20 than a 5w30 with NO synthetic basestocks - but since "synthetic" is an advertising term in the US where does that leave us? Many big name ILSAC approved "Fully Synthetic" motor oils have NO synthetic lubricant (Group IV and/or V stocks) in them at all. Dont read the label advertising given its all garbage - I cant believe how many on here chose Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum for cleaning since SOPUS pushes the cleaning aspect on the lube on the ad copy
I think the Sopus products clean very well Arc.
+1 me too.
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Easier to make a 5w20 than a 5w30 with NO synthetic basestocks - but since "synthetic" is an advertising term in the US where does that leave us? Many big name ILSAC approved "Fully Synthetic" motor oils have NO synthetic lubricant (Group IV and/or V stocks) in them at all. Dont read the label advertising given its all garbage - I cant believe how many on here chose Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum for cleaning since SOPUS pushes the cleaning aspect on the lube on the ad copy
Ignore the garbage on the label except for service category and the approval list and/or the API Starburst. Dont be a gullible sap.
I think the Sopus products clean very well Arc.
I'm not so sure that they clean that well, at least when compared to other SN formulas. There are few people here that claim dirtier oil and maybe some slightly cleaner looking internals when looking from the fill hole, but these are rather unsubstantiated claims. For all we know, the same results could've take place with another oil brand.
So I agree with Arco that most people here just repeat marketing claims with no actual firsthand experience. Even with first hand experience there is no way of knowing what could've happened with different oil, as people don't have time and resources to do a proper comparison. They just go with most recommended oil here, which happens to be Pennzoil products.
This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The more one oil brand is recommended for cleaning, the more people are going to try it and the more likelihood that some of them will come back with positive experience even if the final result is negligible. This will make it look like the product cleans better than others without doing side by side comparisons or any actual testing that may not be favorable to the marketing campaign.
I’m not a marketing guru, but that looks a heck of a lot easier than actually delivering a product that meets the claims and proving it through testing.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Easier to make a 5w20 than a 5w30 with NO synthetic basestocks - but since "synthetic" is an advertising term in the US where does that leave us? Many big name ILSAC approved "Fully Synthetic" motor oils have NO synthetic lubricant (Group IV and/or V stocks) in them at all. Dont read the label advertising given its all garbage - I cant believe how many on here chose Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum for cleaning since SOPUS pushes the cleaning aspect on the lube on the ad copy
I think the Sopus products clean very well Arc.
I'm not so sure that they clean that well, at least when compared to other SN formulas. There are few people here that claim dirtier oil and maybe some slightly cleaner looking internals when looking from the fill hole, but these are rather unsubstantiated claims. For all we know, the same results could've take place with another oil brand.
So I agree with Arco that most people here just repeat marketing claims with no actual firsthand experience. Even with first hand experience there is no way of knowing what could've happened with different oil, as people don't have time and resources to do a proper comparison. They just go with most recommended oil here, which happens to be Pennzoil products.
This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The more one oil brand is recommended for cleaning, the more people are going to try it and the more likelihood that some of them will come back with positive experience even if the final result is negligible. This will make it look like the product cleans better than others without doing side by side comparisons or any actual testing that may not be favorable to the marketing campaign.
I’m not a marketing guru, but that looks a heck of a lot easier than actually delivering a product that meets the claims and proving it through testing.
Amsoil
You know over the past 4 years I have never found anything to be proven. It is all diner talk. If a under valve cover picture almost always the op has no idea of previous record. It is all talk the only item that caught my interest was the Consumer Guide NY Taxi test in the late 90s. This was a actual teardown comparing dino vs syn. As far as the test goes there were replys yes they did not stop and start, yes the Taxi runs are different blah blah. Yet Consumer Guide did say they could not find any difference in wear re. conventional and synthetic. For someone who paid $27 for Ultra this is not what they want to hear so guess what blah blah blah?
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
You know over the past 4 years I have never found anything to be proven. It is all diner talk. If a under valve cover picture almost always the op has no idea of previous record. It is all talk the only item that caught my interest was the Consumer Guide NY Taxi test in the late 90s. This was a actual teardown comparing dino vs syn. As far as the test goes there were replys yes they did not stop and start, yes the Taxi runs are different blah blah. Yet Consumer Guide did say they could not find any difference in wear re. conventional and synthetic. For someone who paid $27 for Ultra this is not what they want to hear so guess what blah blah blah?
The Consumer Reports test used dino at 3000 and 6000 intervals and Mobil synthetic at 12,000 intervals and found no difference in wear---i dont know why the syn guy wouldnt want to hear this? They also used different weights and found no wear difference.
You know over the past 4 years I have never found anything to be proven. It is all diner talk. If a under valve cover picture almost always the op has no idea of previous record. It is all talk the only item that caught my interest was the Consumer Guide NY Taxi test in the late 90s. This was a actual teardown comparing dino vs syn. As far as the test goes there were replys yes they did not stop and start, yes the Taxi runs are different blah blah. Yet Consumer Guide did say they could not find any difference in wear re. conventional and synthetic. For someone who paid $27 for Ultra this is not what they want to hear so guess what blah blah blah?
The Consumer Reports test used dino at 3000 and 6000 intervals and Mobil synthetic at 12,000 intervals and found no difference in wear---i dont know why the syn guy wouldnt want to hear this? They also used different weights and found no wear difference.
Originally Posted By: jdmstr22
Ive been hearing that most of not all new GF-5 oils and 5W20 are all part synthetic now is this true? If some can somepne explain why?
This is entirely false. The main spec that determines whether an oil needs to be synthetic or not is the NOACK volatility and that hasn't changed since GF-4.
5W-20 or 5w30 gas-engine oils that are sold as conventional are Group II+. They meet the 15% NOACK volatility requirement of GF-4 and GF-5. 5W-40 diesel-engine oils need to have 13% NOACK because of the CJ-4 spec and therefore they need Group III or higher in the mix. Similarly, dexos1 has 13% NOACK spec, which requires Group III or higher in the mix.
Also note that in order for an oil to be sold as fully synthetic, there can only be Group III or higher in the mix.
Similarly, for 0W-xx oils, it's impossible to meet the 15% NOACK without any Group III or higher.
For more info on base-oil requirement vs. the NOACK spec, see Global Perspective on Base Oil Quality and How it Affects Lubricants Specifications (PDF file) by Chevron Oronite, in particular pages 8 and 9.
Ive been hearing that most of not all new GF-5 oils and 5W20 are all part synthetic now is this true? If some can somepne explain why?
This is entirely false. The main spec that determines whether an oil needs to be synthetic or not is the NOACK volatility and that hasn't changed since GF-4.
5W-20 or 5w30 gas-engine oils that are sold as conventional are Group II+. They meet the 15% NOACK volatility requirement of GF-4 and GF-5. 5W-40 diesel-engine oils need to have 13% NOACK because of the CJ-4 spec and therefore they need Group III or higher in the mix. Similarly, dexos1 has 13% NOACK spec, which requires Group III or higher in the mix.
Also note that in order for an oil to be sold as fully synthetic, there can only be Group III or higher in the mix.
Similarly, for 0W-xx oils, it's impossible to meet the 15% NOACK without any Group III or higher.
For more info on base-oil requirement vs. the NOACK spec, see Global Perspective on Base Oil Quality and How it Affects Lubricants Specifications (PDF file) by Chevron Oronite, in particular pages 8 and 9.
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