Is it time to just say no?

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I am just glad that Trav caught all of this. Shows everybody who is responsible and can be believed and trusted.


Originally Posted By: Mystic
What the heck, here is a test with compression readings and the Pennzoil Platinum outperformed the engine cleaner! People keep demanding compression test proof-here is compression test proof! And the Pennzoil Platinum worked very well.

 

[Mystic]

Clevy some people have nothing better to do than attack other people. I have FoxS on Ignore and I do not read his posts. But I noticed in a post above that apparently he said I had become Skyship. I am still me and I have not really changed in the 10 years I have been here.

Actually Skyship in his original message was not far from the truth I think. But people could not stand the way he presented himself here. Some of the best advice to a new car owner would probably be to read the owner's manual, do all required maintenance, and use high quality motor oil changed at reasonable intervals. I think there are a few (very few) oil supplements that really are worthwhile but the average person is better off just not using any oil supplements at all. The average person would be more likely to buy some sort of junk product in an auto parts store.

A person can't go too far off course just buying the best gasoline he can find, using high quality motor oil changed at reasonable intervals, and doing all required maintenance. There are a few products I am willing to use like fuel system cleaners made by major oil companies and Sta-bil for the lawnmower fuel. And I use MMO sometimes in the fuel of the lawnmower and even my car.

I have no need for any expensive engine cleaner for which proof does not exist that it works. I would rather just use a high quality motor oil.

I read the posts of people who seem to know what they are talking about and don't spend their time here attacking other people. I have seen good posts from you Clevy and I like to read what Trav and demarpaint and some others post.

So don't worry-I am not Skyship or even Johnny, whom I greatly admired until he started to promote ZMax. I am still Mystic.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

I see I'm in your crosshairs today. Well lets see. A-Rx briefly stopped a leak which came back with a vengeance, paid posters, and lets just say the owner showed his true colors and leave it at that. I'd rather not beat a dead horse.

As far as oil goes I believe oil should be matched to climate and how an engine is used. I'm no longer a fan of one size fits all. I'm also in pretty good company, but like everything else on this board opinions vary. I'm going to give Mobil 1 0W20 a try in my Jeep this summer. I'll let you know how it goes, its one of the thicker 0W20 oils, and Tig1 swears by it.

BTW I heard things about too.

Not at all. I'm genuinely interested in your experience with ARX.

I think it would be interesting to understand the mechanism of the subsequent leak. It is not necessarily the case that ARX caused the leak. It may be that it cleaned up too much and exposed a leak. Maybe sometimes it makes sense to clean and sometimes it doesn't. Having more details helps us understand that.

My own interest is that I restored compression, performance and mpg significantly with Techron and Gumout. Then I went with the Walmart service and got some more cleaning of what I am assuming was carbon around the piston rings. The reason I tried the Walmart service was I had a scraping noise during acceleration so felt there was more cleaning to do. Since it worked, I'm wondering whether there is more cleaning now possible from the oil side. I don't want to use additives and am hopeful that continued use of full synthetic with annual Techron and a realization that I need long trips will keep things clean. I'm waiting to see whether the car improves further after the next oil change.

Re oil and climate, I'm interested in that too. I have seen some charts from Mercedes for the US market where 30 weight is ok above 100f and beyond while some others suggest to use 40 weight in those instances. In the absence of clarification, I'm sticking with 40 weight for my Mercedes.

But for Fords, I calculated that there have been 7 trillion miles on 20 weight oil and some of they must have been above 100f. So I think they've proven the climate / weight issue on a number of engines. If you have a newer engine, you might be right to worry.


If I owned a Mercedes I'd do exactly what you did. I had my son using Mobil 1 0W40 in his BWM 323i, I don't remember what the oil options were, but I figured that was hands down one of the best oils for that engine.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Clevy some people have nothing better to do than attack other people. I have FoxS on Ignore and I do not read his posts. But I noticed in a post above that apparently he said I had become Skyship. I am still me and I have not really changed in the 10 years I have been here.

Actually Skyship in his original message was not far from the truth I think. But people could not stand the way he presented himself here. Some of the best advice to a new car owner would probably be to read the owner's manual, do all required maintenance, and use high quality motor oil changed at reasonable intervals. I think there are a few (very few) oil supplements that really are worthwhile but the average person is better off just not using any oil supplements at all. The average person would be more likely to buy some sort of junk product in an auto parts store.

A person can't go too far off course just buying the best gasoline he can find, using high quality motor oil changed at reasonable intervals, and doing all required maintenance. There are a few products I am willing to use like fuel system cleaners made by major oil companies and Sta-bil for the lawnmower fuel. And I use MMO sometimes in the fuel of the lawnmower and even my car.

I have no need for any expensive engine cleaner for which proof does not exist that it works. I would rather just use a high quality motor oil.

I read the posts of people who seem to know what they are talking about and don't spend their time here attacking other people. I have seen good posts from you Clevy and I like to read what Trav and demarpaint and some others post.

So don't worry-I am not Skyship or even Johnny, whom I greatly admired until he started to promote ZMax. I am still Mystic.


Thatta boy.
Wasn't Johnny trying to extol the virtues of some aviation additive that was in fact zmax,just in a different bottle? I vaguely remember something along those lines.
And don't sweat the negativity that is thrown around sometimes. We get threads that are enlightening,then others that seem to get reduced to a mud toss.
It was in one of those mud toss threads I learned about a top end oiler/mister and I ended up buying 2 of them. I've got one on the 302 and I like how the engine runs(thanks dermapaint).
Anyways my point it just cut through the clutter and read the posts that actually contribute to the discussion,and forget the rest. Some people just aren't happy.
Glad I'm not one of them.
Don't let any of the negatives affect your postings Mystic. I like reading your posts and the info they eventually lead to.

 

[FoxS]

"eventually"

LOL

 

[Mystic]

Thanks Clevy. Now that you bring it up I do remember something about an aviation version of ZMax and I vaguely remember Johnny saying something about it. I guess my memory is not as good as it used to be. And I never did learn how to search here really well.

Johnny who had worked for Pennzoil was member #10 here and he seemed to be against most supplements except for some fuel system cleaners. But right before he left he was promoting ZMax pretty hard. I don't think highly of ZMax and it was discouraging to me when he started talking about ZMax right before he left.

If I could do things all over again I never would have used Auto-RX. I just would have got a seal leak fixed on a car I used to own. And if I knew then what I know now I would have used Mobil 1 oil from the time I owned any of the new cars I have owned.

I think I would have used only some fuel system cleaners, like Techron, Gumout Regane, and BG-44K and Sta-bil in the lawnmower fuel. And maybe MMO.

There are only a few supplements that really seemed to work. I still like Lubegard products and I liked some Schaeffer's products. I still remember a Lubegard power steering supplement that worked immediately for me and stopped a squeal from a power steering unit instantly. No supplement I have ever used was more effective or worked better.

I have learned a lot here and this is in my opinion the best website for learning about motor oils, supplements, etc. And I still miss Bob. I miss his experiments testing various supplements and products and I miss his down to earth approach and I miss his PMs. And I miss the early days when there were about 1000 members here and it seemed really different. How the entire internet has changed in the last 10 years. There are some vicious people on the internet today.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: V8man

ARX - why it IS the miracle fluid!



dnewton3


Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4414
Loc: Indianapolis, IN



I just completed my second ARX application/rinse. I don't know that there are enough superlatives I can find to express how pleased I am with the performance of ARX.

For those who don't know my story, read the whole thing here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1128803&fpart=1

But if you want a synopsis, I'll provide this:
1997 Taurus 3.0 Vulcan; heavily coked piston rings. Very poor compression. There were two treatments of ARX application/rinse. First was an "experiment" with Frank and Gary; second was a "traditional" treatment. The initial test was 2x the dose for 1k miles, followed by a 2k mile rinse. The second application was at 90k miles with 2.5k miles application and 2.5k miles rinse.

The final result?????
ALL CYLINDERS ARE NOW AT FULL COMPRESSION! The last lagging cylinder (#5) is now up over 180psi in yesterday's compression test, along with all the rest. The following is a recap of the compression in psi, with each reading taken at the beginning of the event.

event.....2app..rns...1app..rns.....final check
milage....87k...88k...90K...92.5k...95k
cyl 1:.....170...180...180...180.....180
cyl 2:.....170...180...180...180.....180
cyl 3:.....165...180...180...180.....180
cyl 4:.....120...180...180...180.....180
cyl 5:.....110...150...160...170.....180
cyl 6:.....180...180...180...180.....180


Lets take a look at these compression numbers with Pennzoil Platinum and auto-rx, followed by the numbers with auto-rx and conventional oil. At 85K Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 was put in this engine, at 87K compression numbers were taken and auto-rx was added in the oil.

At 88K compression numbers were taken again, cylinder #4 went from 120 to 180, so that cylinder is fine. We now have cylinder #5 going from 110 to 150, the problem is that we do not have compression numbers when this engine had 85K. This engine had a mishap at 50K when a freeze plug bursted, right near cylinders 4 and 5. What is interesting is that there were no problems from 50K onward, meaning there was no sign that there was a compression problem, the engine ran fine.

At 90K cylinder #5 went from 150 to 160, and at 92.5K cylider #5 was at 170, and at 95K cylider #5 was at 180, so how much credit do we give auto-rx and how much credit do we give Pennzoil Platinum.

When I look at these numbers I can say that auto-rx increased this engines compression in increments of 10. Cylinder #5 had the biggest increase with Pennzoil Platinum and auto-rx in the engine, it went up by 40 psi, so I give Pennzoil Platinum credit for 30 psi and auto-rx 10 psi. Why am I giving auto-rx only 10 psi, because after the Pennzoil Platinum was out of the engine it only saw a 10 psi increase with conventional oil and auto-rx, or just conventional oil alone for the so called rinse.

When I step out of the box, and really look hard at these numbers I come up with some conclusions, Pennzoil Platinum by itself would easily bring this engines compression numbers back up. I also see here that when you add auto-rx with Pennzoil Platinum you have PP doing 80% of the cleaning and auto-rx doing 20% of the cleaning. You cannot get away from the fact that PP did some cleaning, some members keep throwing this test out that auto-rx works, but this test proves that auto-rx works a little bit, and it proves that Pennzoil Platinum really works. If PP did not do any cleaning then cylinder #5 with PP and auto-rx should only have gone up by 10 psi.

This test also proves that Pennzoil Platinum is a cheaper and faster alternative than using auto-rx in cleaning up Ring Packs.



WHOA!!!!!!!

V8man - you've formatted this quote and your comments on it INCORRECTLY and have caused a lot of confusion!!!!!

The top half of this post is dnewtons, the bottom half interpreting the results is V8mans.

And I think that interpretation is flawed.

Compression after 2k of PP was 110psi and 120psi. If in the next 1k you feel that PP was responsible for 30psi increase, then in the 2k when PP was on its own, it had already resulted in 60psi increase which means the compression before PP was 50psi / 60psi.

Dnewton stated that he noticed fuel economy improvements and I think power improvements going from 110psi / 120psi to full / almost full compression.

So he would have noticed the same during that 2k with PP only.

You interpreted his data the way you wanted to believe it.

On top of that the way you quoted him and added your comments has confused everyone!

TWO SERIOUS MISTAKES!


I left out the part in his post where he was giving auto-rx credit. In his opinion auto-rx deserves all of the credit in increasing his compression, I am just showing that Pennzoil Platinum really deserves the credit. I stated earlier in this thread that Pennzoil Platinum can increase compression and I was called out by Trajan and sprintman made a comment, so I responded. dnewton3's 2 threads have been around for about 6 years and Trajan seems to like this test and sprintman is talking about increasing compression. I think this Pennzoil Platinum goes with the title in this thread, Is it time to just say no? As far as using auto-rx in cleaning up ring packs or increasing compression, then we can say no for auto-rx and YES for Pennzoil Platinum.

Unlike most here who just read a thread once, when I look at a thread I will look over it many times and then draw my conclusions. There is no proof that auto-rx increases fuel economy, no oil additive can do that.


C3po they can. Clean ring pack, higher compression, better fuel economy. Not rocket science.

 

[FoxS]

Mystic, I have no idea why you are ignoring me.

Well I have a theory that I asked you to explain your skyship style assertion that PP would clean engines and you can't. Why not recommend Ultra which had more additives according to PQIA. Why not Quaker State Ultimate Durability which had similar additives according to PQIA? Why not the other full synthetic oils that had additives in different proportions? What exactly is it about PP that means you repeat, ad nausem (or should that be ad skyship), that it will certainly clean better? What do you know that nobody else knows?

I guess you also don't want to apologize for gleefully leaping to conclusions about V8mans post where he quoted dnewton and erroneously gave the impression that dnewton said PP and not ARX increased compression. You betrayed the fact that after all this time posting like skyship, you never read dnewtons scientific evaluation of ARX.

And what do you know about MMOs composition that you recommend it be added? It's a mystery isn't it? So why would you want to put something in your engine when you don't know what it is? Because its cheap? That seems to be your reasoning. I would think that there is a risk to the ENGINE. You seem to be preoccupied with the risk to your wallet.

I sense that you will get wind of this post through your buddies pm and you will reply as you have been about how the Internet has changed in the last 10 years and people are vicious. Another one of those well substantiated observations of yours. How childish, just like playground whispers. Man up and take people off ignore who challenge you to explain your skyships.

 

[JHZR2]

Getting nasty as usual, so his one does too. Learn to play nice.

 

[dnewton3]

I would ask members to be mindful of the "play nice" and "full trust" concepts we try to adhere to here at BITOG.

I have clearly been misquoted in this thread; not sure if it was carelessness or intended, but it puts my topic thread in a bad light and alters what I said.

Further, there is an imposter of me running about the vehicle internet world, registering with my typical ID name "dnewton3" and then posting all kinds of trash that I'd never say or state or claim. Anytime you happen on this, and it does not seem like me, please let me know so I can try to get it fixed.