Is It Politically Incorrect...

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Originally Posted By: Astro14
If you serve in the military for 20 years, and blew it all on fancy cars instead of preparing for the future (including children's college and your retirement), then you were a moron.

You would be surprised at how many senior NCO's that live paycheck to paycheck and are stressed about finding a full-time civilian job upon retiring from the service. Its like they had zero financial counseling while they were in the service. They should have taken advantage of all the financial perks over those 20 years.

I really don't feel bad for any folks in the military that got into a financial mess buying [censored] they really didn't need or couldn't afford. Example: E-5 riding around in a brand new top of the line Harley-Davidson.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: Astro14
If you serve in the military for 20 years, and blew it all on fancy cars instead of preparing for the future (including children's college and your retirement), then you were a moron.

You would be surprised at how many senior NCO's that live paycheck to paycheck and are stressed about finding a full-time civilian job upon retiring from the service. Its like they had zero financial counseling while they were in the service. They should have taken advantage of all the financial perks over those 20 years.

I really don't feel bad for any folks in the military that got into a financial mess buying [censored] they really didn't need or couldn't afford. Example: E-5 riding around in a brand new top of the line Harley-Davidson.




I noticed the same thing. I was surprised at the number of E-5 and E-6's that had filed bankruptcy or come close.


Back on Topic, if I "can't" drive anything nicer than my boss then going back through my last few jobs I can't drive anything nicer than:
(ages are at the time I worked for them)
4 year old Toyota pickup (current)
7 year old F-350
10 year old Volvo 750
6 year old Escort
Rusty '70 bronco

I wouldn't be allowed to drive a very nice anything...I've worked for very practical people.
 
Originally Posted By: oily boyd
Quote:
IMO,you should NEVER ever have a nicer anything than your boss


Be sure to take that into consideration if you decide to propose marriage to a woman someday!

If the car (or whatever) is within YOUR means, don't lose sleep over what other people MIGHT think - life is too short for that.


I have been married for 13 years! I don't worry about what others think! I try not to anyway!
 
It's not so much what your boss might think, just that he might decide to put a few career 'speed bumps' in the way of the spoiled brat with a flashy car.
Sad, but it's human nature.
Better to express yourself another way.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: Astro14
If you serve in the military for 20 years, and blew it all on fancy cars instead of preparing for the future (including children's college and your retirement), then you were a moron.

You would be surprised at how many senior NCO's that live paycheck to paycheck and are stressed about finding a full-time civilian job upon retiring from the service. Its like they had zero financial counseling while they were in the service. They should have taken advantage of all the financial perks over those 20 years.

I really don't feel bad for any folks in the military that got into a financial mess buying [censored] they really didn't need or couldn't afford. Example: E-5 riding around in a brand new top of the line Harley-Davidson.




Take advantage of the "financial perks?" I spent 22 years in the military and I can tell you first hand there are no financial perks being in the military. Service members earn a very modest income. That isn't to say we had to do without, but you make it sound as though military people earn so much they should just be able to stash it all away and life will be all fine and dandy when we retire. It doesn't work that way. We have to find another job when we retire, and that's not a given either. The military is a good career, but it isn't all roses and daffodils like you make it out to be...
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: grampi
Who cares about being PC? One of the biggest problems with this country right now IS PC. In fact, PC is slowly running this country into the ground. I'd guess this very statement is politically incorrect....


The OP meant "incorrect for the politics inside an organization".


PC anywhere, especially inside organizations, is destructive...
 
My temporary supervisor drove a Prius. I don't have an idea what my big bosses drive since the only time I've met them is to sign the contract. I'm positive my car is still nowhere near as nice as what they drive, even though it's the nicest car I've "owned" (still the bank's car in my mind).
 
Most of our administrators drive high-end cars. Lexus, Jags, and Mercedes are on the administrative lot. Even a new Camaro SS. There are a few sensible choices, but it's the minority.

However, aside from the SS mentioned, all of their cars look awful. Like they haven't been washed this year, headlights yellowed, scratches, dents, bug debris, etc. I think they must believe they're too special to wash a vehicle. Keep in mind most of these are women and hold Phds.

I drive my truck sometimes to work (other times I ride the bus). My truck looks pristine compared to their vehicles.

So, maybe it isn't WHAT you drive, but HOW it looks might bother some supervisors. I've never given it a thought about what they think about my vehicles.
 
I say go for it if you want to and can manage it.

I'm all for financial responsibility, but only you know what your situation is and what you can afford. From the advice some people give on here (and I've gotten that advice in the past here too) you'd think you've gotta not do or buy anything you enjoy until you're retired. Guess what? Once you get married priorities may change, and nobody even knows if they'll make it to retirement. Not saying that's an excuse to go overboard but enjoy life responsibly when you can. For many on this board, that means having a car they love.

My only advice would be to make sure you get what you want so it'll last you a while. You don't want your sense of financial responsibility to force you into driving a car for 6 years when you only like it for 6 months. Although I don't think you'll have that problem, especially with a BMW.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: Astro14
If you serve in the military for 20 years, and blew it all on fancy cars instead of preparing for the future (including children's college and your retirement), then you were a moron.

You would be surprised at how many senior NCO's that live paycheck to paycheck and are stressed about finding a full-time civilian job upon retiring from the service. Its like they had zero financial counseling while they were in the service. They should have taken advantage of all the financial perks over those 20 years.

I really don't feel bad for any folks in the military that got into a financial mess buying [censored] they really didn't need or couldn't afford. Example: E-5 riding around in a brand new top of the line Harley-Davidson.




Take advantage of the "financial perks?" I spent 22 years in the military and I can tell you first hand there are no financial perks being in the military. Service members earn a very modest income. That isn't to say we had to do without, but you make it sound as though military people earn so much they should just be able to stash it all away and life will be all fine and dandy when we retire. It doesn't work that way. We have to find another job when we retire, and that's not a given either. The military is a good career, but it isn't all roses and daffodils like you make it out to be...


So enlisted folks don't get Reenlistment bonuses ?

How much do they pay out of pocket for health/dental coverage for the family, housing, food..., etc ?

Lets not forget Tax-Exempt Allowances (in addition to being tax-exempt from Federal and State taxes, these allowances are also excluded from Social Security taxes.)

You are 100% correct, military folks make a modest income. I made 3.5 more money working as a civilian doing the same exact job as I did in the Air Force and I worked less hours.
 
Or once you get out of the military you can go work for Blackwater and get paid a ton of money doing a similar job.
 
Originally Posted By: oily boyd
Sorry racerjk, I meant to reply to OP.

Congrats on your 13 years!


Thank you! The guy I used to work for filled in for my boss during a maintenance and cleanup shut down this week. I was sure I would get a [censored] job. I did for two days,but the last day he put me on another easier job,and bragged on the good work I've always done. I was shocked.
 
In the military, if you can buy a home (on your housing allowance) and sell it for more than you paid, then you are adding to your income.

The raw money isn't as much, and doesn't compare to a comparable position in the civilian world. But so much of your pay is not taxable, and that's a significant chunk.

Now if you happen to be an officer, you'll start out making more than most enlisted folks up to about senior E7's and above until you make O3 roughly speaking. Once you hit O3 you probably make more than all the enlisted personnel. If you don't then, you will soon.

I probably make as much as a general today, but I don't have my own staff, a helicopter, chef, etc. Nor do I have the same responsibility. So no one could say our military folks are over-paid. But if you stick with it and make responsible choices, you won't be in poverty either.

But as folks have mention, there are predators that will prey on the inexperience of a young soldier and get them into a vehicle they cannot afford.

If it gets bad enough, the base commander can put that business off limits, so they too have an interest in working with the military leadership to resolve issues.
 
This is waaaay off topic but it has come up already in this post.

We hear/read quite often that "military folks don't make much" so I decided to look up what I would make if I was still active duty in the USAF and was stationed in the area I currently live:

I'd have 17 years in and would probably be an E-6 working as a department supervisor in aircraft maintenance. My education would be a high school diploma and USAF maintenance and leadership training.

All of these numbers are straight out of the 2011 pay charts and don't account for combat zone pay or any other hardship allotments.

Basic Pay: $3500/mo (taxable)
Housing Allowance with dependents: $2000/mo (non-taxable)
Subsistence Allowance: $325 non-taxable
Total: $5825/mo
but, $2325/mo is non-taxable so its civilian equivalent is 30% higher, $3023/mo
An equivalent civilian salary is $78,276

Also take into consideration that in 3 more years I could retire at the age of 38 with 50% of my active duty pay for the rest of my life.
That's an extra $2000/mo for the next 40 years

I don't make anywhere near that kind of money in my current job that builds on my military experience and requires a bachelor's degree.


For comparison I'll post the numbers of a single E-4 with 4 years service.

Basic Pay: $2320 (taxable)
Housing Allowance: $1000 (non-taxable)
Subsistence Allowance: $325 (non-taxable)

That's $3645/mo
Civilian equivalent: $4042/mo....$48,510

Anyone making that kind of money at 22 in a blue collar type job? I made less than $8/hr at that age fresh out of the service.

They aren't getting rich but I'm not seeing a financial hardship with any of these numbers.
 
It is amazing to see all the poor financial decisions parked in Norfolk and San Diego...

Just getting beaten in the sun.

Judging by the clothes that the enlisted sailors wear, I dont think they are doing too bad. They have more expensive brands than I buy.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
To drive a much nicer car than your boss? I am thinking about getting a new or newer car in the next year or so, and all of the cars that interest me will be much nicer than what my boss or our CEO drives.

Should that be a concern? Some people say it's a no-no, but to me, I feel that I should have the right to drive whatever I desire without feeling guilty.


If the cars you like are nicer than what your boss/CEO drive, there is a reason. The reason is that the REAL costs of life (which you may not have encountered yet), are far higher than what the simple in the head perception provides.

Now there is a narrow window in time where with the right choices you can be doing better than most, literally living like a millionare. But it takes the right choices. My wife and I are there, as we make very good salaries, didnt buy too expensive of a home, have short commutes, and are "DINKs" (dual-income, no kids). We live about as good a life as any reasonable person sustainably can with some nice stuff, doing fun things, etc., WHILE saving heavily for retirement, paying our house down, etc.

This allows some splurge, but I warn you, single income people need not attempt this. You are NOT in the position to be this way for a few years (unless you are secretly married).

The day will come however, when having a decent home in a decent school district, keeping your kids outfitted with what they need, etc., will cost you a LOT of $$$. Some folks lease things they cannot afford, and then cause a keeping up with the Joneses vortex that sucks others in. It is very easy to be sucked in. Those who want the best quality of life for themselves and their family, while not being sucked in, will own modest cars and stretch their dollars. Real life isnt MTV, real life is stretching that dollar and hearing it scream. Expensive, depreciating cars dont help, especially as the need for size increases.

So while your tastes may be very expensive, realize that most of what you see of this on the outside is fake.

I recommend you read "The Millionaire Next Door", as well as some of Dave Ramsey's books. SERIOUSLY - get on a budget, account for EVERY dollar before the month starts, and avoid debt. Once you have a real, sustainable budget that allocates your money and gives you good insight into what you truly can afford (dont forget alternate housing arrangements if you have something really good and cheap for now that will not last).

You may find that you can afford a nearly-new 328i wagon, you may find that you can only actually afford a five year old GTI. Remember also that used isnt always the best deal when amortized over the ownership miles, and also that (as determined by your post frequency on here now versus last year) your time is more sparse and you may not want to spend a lot of time working on a car. The fancier, more powerful, more bells and whistles, the more to go wrong. Sometimes a nice new car with just the basics in a KISS fashion is the best option! Think about it.

Your life will go through more changes in the next ten years then it has since you were conceived, and then it will before you die. Now Im not that old, but considering college graduation, job, relationships, marriage, kids, buy first home, start making big financial decisions, etc., it is pretty severe. It means that you need a good, nice car that will provide long-term utility (remember that trading cars is the bad financial decision, not buying and having them). But it doesnt mean that you should over-extend... Getting into debt now can destroy most of your dreams and push the timeframe to getting there out by ears. Saving a little now can mean a far superior financial position and quality of life a decade or two from now. You may feel like you have freedom, but you need to be thinking long-term now.

I was told that you should dress the same but a little lower-end than your boss. I believe that you should carry yourself as highly as you can (remember, its not about name brand but what you do with what you have and how you carry yourself), but keep an extremely modest profile when it counts. A car may not even be seen by the boss, you need to understand office politics and chatter, who talks to whom and what they are concerned about.

And remember that an outfit Honda Odyssey can cost as much as a new BMW!
 
Well said, let me add as I am getting older (26 now) priorities change. I can't beleive how much in say 5 years from when I was 21.

Their comes a point when you realize any idiot can lease a new BMW, have some nice cloths and a fancy phone, yet be broke, and on the fastlane to no where. I rather have an ok car and at the end of the day pull up to a nice house that I own, vs drive a fancy car and pull up to a rental or my parents house.

Your dad is doing you a huge favor letting you drive the Prius, keep it as long as you can, don't waste money on it, and when you have to give it up, replace it with something reasonable.
 
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My advice enjoy and explore your 20's as much as possible without going over your head. Don't get married till approaching 30.

I made a large commitment in my early 20's that excellent financial decision($100k home in great town). However it limited me in growth and self exploration opportunities. I spent 30-34 figuring myself out. Expensive car purchases can be limiting but again the only way to really figure that out is yourself.

I have known few bosses or client who really drive expensive cars unless they appreciate the vehicle or some sort of perceived status.
 
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