Is ADBV need if oil filter is mounting vertical ?

[MetalSlug]

Is ADBV need if oil filter is mounting vertical ?
and when I take off the oil filer, a bunch of oil is pouring down from the hole. So I guest oil filter is alway going to be full of oil.
btw is Purolator Classic Oil Filters Part No. L25288 have ADBV ?

 

[HerrStig]

There are two ways to mount a filter in the vertical position. If it is base UP such as the old SAAB 900s then no ABV is needed. Of course getting those filters out of the spot where SAAB mounted them usually resulted in spilling oil everywhere.

 

[MetalSlug]

this is old picture, this how my oil filter mount, NO im not the one using fram, preview owner is.

 

[yonyon]

This has been discussed before. Oil will not drain back out of a filter without an ADBV in that mounting position. However, oil in the galleys may drain back through the filter with no ADBV. For this readon, the ADBV is still a good thing to have.

 

[Garak]

Hard to tell, but that one could be mounted low enough that there won't be any real issues at all.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

No! you don't need one!

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: yonyon
This has been discussed before. Oil will not drain back out of a filter without an ADBV in that mounting position. However, oil in the galleys may drain back through the filter with no ADBV. For this readon, the ADBV is still a good thing to have.


This is the correct answer. You still want to have an ADBV in the filter. The filter is generally one of the lower points of the oil circulation circuit. When you turn your engine off, the oil ABOVE the filter will drain back into the filter and push oil that's in the filter back into the sump. Your oil filter is still full of oil, but your oil circulation circuit is no longer primed.

MetalSlug: you said that when you take the filter off, you get a bunch of oil pouring down the hole. This is the oil up in that circulation circuit that your ADBV was holding there, and this demonstrates the purpose of an ADBV, even with a filter that mounts vertical like yours does.

My advice is to always buy a filter with an ADBV, unless you know that provision is built into the engine or the oil filter mount.

 

[blmlozz]

The more apropriate question would be; Are there any consumer avaliable canister oil filters that *don't* have ADBV?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: blmlozz
The more apropriate question would be; Are there any consumer avaliable canister oil filters that *don't* have ADBV?


I think there are a few spin-ons that don't have an ADBV, but they are rare. Most filters will fit many different vehicles, so the manufacturer will put an ADBV in the filter so it can be used across all applications.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: yonyon
This has been discussed before. Oil will not drain back out of a filter without an ADBV in that mounting position. However, oil in the galleys may drain back through the filter with no ADBV. For this readon, the ADBV is still a good thing to have.


This is the correct answer. You still want to have an ADBV in the filter. The filter is generally one of the lower points of the oil circulation circuit. When you turn your engine off, the oil ABOVE the filter will drain back into the filter and push oil that's in the filter back into the sump. Your oil filter is still full of oil, but your oil circulation circuit is no longer primed.

MetalSlug: you said that when you take the filter off, you get a bunch of oil pouring down the hole. This is the oil up in that circulation circuit that your ADBV was holding there, and this demonstrates the purpose of an ADBV, even with a filter that mounts vertical like yours does.

My advice is to always buy a filter with an ADBV, unless you know that provision is built into the engine or the oil filter mount.


^^ +1 ^^

To prove that the ADBV works in that scenario, you could put a filter on without an ADBV and then remove it to see of the oil still drains out of the galleries above the filter or not. If not, then the ADBV was indeed keeping all the oil galleries above the filter full of oil.

 

[MetalSlug]

is Purolator Classic Oil Filters Part No. L25288 have ADBV, i seem cant find that info on the site.
nvm

Specifications:
Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes Height 4.02
O.D. 2.98 Relief Valve P.S.I. None
Thread Pitch UN-2B Threads 13/16-16
Type of Filter Spin-on

It have ADBV and walmart have it for $3.24, why would I ever use another filter , 1 stop shop for me.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

quote: " To prove that the ADBV works in that scenario, you could put a filter on without an ADBV and then remove it to see of the oil still drains out of the galleries above the filter or not. If not, then the ADBV was indeed keeping all the oil galleries above the filter full of oil." end quote.

The amount of pressure or oil in the galley's would need to be the combined weight of the oil in the filter to push it in reverse through the filter back into the pan....I don't think this can happen. I still say verticals don't need an adbv valve!

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
quote: " To prove that the ADBV works in that scenario, you could put a filter on without an ADBV and then remove it to see of the oil still drains out of the galleries above the filter or not. If not, then the ADBV was indeed keeping all the oil galleries above the filter full of oil." end quote.

The amount of pressure or oil in the galley's would need to be the combined weight of the oil in the filter to push it in reverse through the filter back into the pan....I don't think this can happen. I still say verticals don't need an adbv valve!


Nope. Corrected: The amount of pressure or oil in the galley's [and the filter] would need to be the combined weight of the oil in the filter to push it in reverse through the filter back into the pan

Or:The amount of pressure or oil in the galley's would need to be the combined weight of the oil in the filter [greater than zero]to push it in reverse through the filter back into the pan

For a nice visual demonstration: tape the end of a small hose to the bottom of a nice big bowl on the inside. Place the bowl on a table. Hang the other end of the hose off the end of the table so it hangs an inch or so (or even more) below the tabletop. Add water to the bowl until it's about halfway full or so. While keeping the hose below the level of the tabletop, suck on the hose until it fills with water. Get your mop.

With a long enough piece of hose you could run it back and forth between the bowl and the floor several times and the result will be the same so long as one end is in the water and the other end is lower. Water tends to self-level. Oil does too.

 

[Bamaro]

Any filter mounted 'threads up' regardless of ADBV or not will not empty out when engine is off. Gravity will keep it there and I'm not aware of anything internal to the filter or engine that will allow any siphoning to take place.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think what it boils down to is if there is any oil in the engine galleries and filter that is above the level of the oil in the oil pan, then the oil in the galleries & filter can drain down to the oil level in the pan if there is no ADBV in the filter. The ADBV prevents any back flow of oil in the system to prevent the levels from equalizing and draining the galleries and filter.

 

[diddlyd]

this thread has two types of responders. People who understand fluid mechanics and people who don't. The people who understand fluid mechanics are giving the correct answer: the adbv valve is still needed in vertically mounted filters to stop back flow specifically (not filter emptying per se!).

the key, if you're still confused, is that the filter emptying is not the problem the adbv valve is solving in this scenario. it's the oil paths located above the filter level that will drain back into the filter without an adbv (pushing oil out of the adbv-less filter into the sump as the fluid level balances out). These paths would need to be refilled by the oil pump on start up, leading to a period of slack in oil flow to the important parts of the engine. this wouldn't happen with a properly functioning adbv equipped filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: diddlyd
the key, if you're still confused, is that the filter emptying is not the problem the adbv valve is solving in this scenario. it's the oil paths located above the filter level that will drain back into the filter without an adbv (pushing oil out of the adbv-less filter into the sump as the fluid level balances out).


More specifically, it's any oil path/volume located above the level of the oil in the oil pan. If you had a base up mounted filter that was above the oil level in the oil pan, then there is potential that even the oil filter could empty from back flow. Key is the oil above the level in the pan wants to drain back down to that level when the engine is off.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

i'm glad i read this, i was looking for a Purolator larger than the one specified for my vertical mount GM. they recommend PL15313 that has no ADBV, like the old fram PH30 but it's such a small filter, like a mini filter. The oversize PL34631 fits, but has ADBV.

i'm going to try it, it's easily twice as tall as the 15313 and an inch or so taller than the old PH30 or KN 2002

 

[rrounds]

I don't think these three oversize filters have a ADBV and they are made for '72 to '00 GM S/B and B/B engines(in trucks), I would think that these three very well known filter manufactures would know if GM engines needed one or not.
Baldwin B7
Purolator L40084
Wix 51794

ROD

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: rrounds
I don't think these three oversize filters have a ADBV and they are made for '72 to '00 GM S/B and B/B engines(in trucks), I would think that these three very well known filter manufactures would know if GM engines needed one or not.
Baldwin B7
Purolator L40084
Wix 51794

ROD


Purolator L40084
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/resources/Popup/Pages/PartDetailPopup.aspx?partnum=L40084

Yep, no ADBV and no bypass valve either because it's built into the engine block.

One thing that wasn't mentioned yet is that if the oil pump is pretty tight, it could act like an "ADBV" and prevent the oil that's above the oil level in the pan from draining down out of the galleries and filter. Not sure if all positive displacement oil pumps are that tight ... but they could be.