Is a shimmy when braking indicative of............

[dkryan]

....front brake issues or rear brake issues?

I get a shimmy via the steering wheel in my '05 Accord with 54k miles when I depress the brake pedal. It's more prevalent at higher speeds (65 mph+).

When I was at the Bridgestone dealer last week to replace my chopped Turanza Serenitys (with only 22k miles on 'em), he said I needed new pads on the rear brakes. He didn't comment on the front brakes.

For some reason, I was thinking the shimmy via the steering wheel was more indicative of front brake issues.

 

[hypervish]

Usually a shimmy when braking from highway speeds is a warped front rotor, or pad build-up on the rotor.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
Usually a shimmy when braking from highway speeds is a warped front rotor, or pad build-up on the rotor.


This, have your rotors turned and or replaced, new pads installed. should solve your problem.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
I get a shimmy via the steering wheel in my '05 Accord with 54k miles when I depress the brake pedal. It's more prevalent at higher speeds (65 mph+).

.......For some reason, I was thinking the shimmy via the steering wheel was more indicative of front brake issues.


Front brakes for sure. Just get new pads and rotors. The rotors are probably warped or have nice larger grooves in them. I'm guessing that you aren't handy enough to replace brakes yourself. Visit youtube for some more information.

Regards, JC.

 

[dkryan]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: dkryan
I get a shimmy via the steering wheel in my '05 Accord with 54k miles when I depress the brake pedal. It's more prevalent at higher speeds (65 mph+).

.......For some reason, I was thinking the shimmy via the steering wheel was more indicative of front brake issues.


Front brakes for sure. Just get new pads and rotors. The rotors are probably warped or have nice larger grooves in them. I'm guessing that you aren't handy enough to replace brakes yourself. Visit youtube for some more information.

Regards, JC.


Thanks for the info, J.C.

But why would you guess I'm not "handy enough" to replace brakes?

I guess being an armorer for Sig, Remington, and Glock, as well as remodeling two full bathrooms recently, disqualifies me in terms of aptitude for replacing pads and turning rotors.

Replacing pads is easy; it's the equipment to turn the rotors that I lack.

 

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
Replacing pads is easy; it's the equipment to turn the rotors that I lack.

No need to have the equipment, there should be a few auto parts stores or machine shops around that can turn them for you. Most places charge about $35 a pair here in Houston--YMMV.

 

[The Critic]

Replace the front rotors and install the latest front brake pad kit from Honda. If you check TSB #06-087, it describes the front judder as the result of the original design brake pads wearing the rotors unevenly.

 

[jjcom]

Sounds like it's time for front pads and rotors if the shimmy is annoying you too much. I don't normally turn rotors, as by the time they begin to shake, normally there's a lot of rust on the edges. I'd guess yours are going to be pretty rusty driving on salted icy roads. Now on full size trucks with big heavy thick to rotors, turning is more attractive an option. On small cars, normally it's best to just replace them. JMO

 

[dkryan]

The "replace the rotors" threw me a little, guys. Not that I won't. In the past, I always had the rotors turned. Then, with either my Acura or my Infiniti, they told me the OEM rotors were thin to begin with and they simply replaced them at each brake job instead of trying to turn them.

I'll have a look this weekend and see what they look like. The TSB was helpful, Critic.

I got 75k miles on the orginal brakes on our Highlander and that's about the norm for our driving habits.

And jjcom, there's ALWAYS surface rust on the rotors every single morning. But they weren't pretty rusty when I looked at them last year. It didn't take eight years in lovely central Illinois to realize your DOT throws a lot more salt than they do in southwest Ohio.

 

[dkryan]

One more thing...............

What's up with ceramic brake pads? Are they any good? OEMs aren't ceramic on every day drivers, are they?

 

[SteveSRT8]

The word "ceramic" has become a marketing term. It can mean many things, and not all of them are good.

Many cars ship with 'ceramic' pads on them.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
The "replace the rotors" threw me a little, guys. Not that I won't. In the past, I always had the rotors turned.


Here are the issues with the rotor resurfacing. Watch this presentation if you have time:

http://www.oeqf.com/techinfo/index.htm

The quality of rotor refinishing varies significantly. Since many operators do not clean the hat on the rotor before refinishing, they can machine runout into the rotor, causing the disc thickness variation to come back after a short period of time, thus causing pulsation again. Moreover, they may not use a non-directional finish which will prolong the break-in period. Plus, how many of these shops and auto part stores replace the bits on their bench lathes frequently?

New premium rotors for your Honda are about $45/ea.

Originally Posted By: dkryan
One more thing...............

What's up with ceramic brake pads? Are they any good? OEMs aren't ceramic on every day drivers, are they?

Ceramic is a buzz word, sort of like "synthetic" motor oil. Ceramic content varies significantly; ceramic is a material that is part of the NAO family. The OE pads contain a mix of a variety of materials and were tested extensively for the vehicle. In the case of Honda, they have continually updated the pad to address issues (look at how many part # changes they have gone through).

 

[KrisZ]

If it's a slight shimmy and the pads have lots of material left, I would try doing a series of hard braking events, safely of course and on an empty road, but without coming to a complete stop. Ten hard "stops" from 60-5mph should do the trick.

Otherwise, like others mentioned, new pads and rotors are a preferred way fo dealing with this problem.

 

[HerrStig]

The Accord, unlike most other cars of that type, does NOT use the classic strut suspension which is so prone to brake caused vibration. If your tires and rims are OK, it takes a fair amount of rotor runout or caliper trouble to show up as wheel shake.
I'd invest in some good quality new rotors and make sure the caliper moving parts are free.
I had a problem with wheel shake on a Camry which was the result of a moron wheel balancer throwing away the concentric hub rings on my Borbet wheels (Toyota OEM rims are "hub centric" rather than being centered by the lugs) because the moron didn't know what they were. Tire rack, from whom I got the Borbets, sent me a new pair. Problem solved. Ya gotta watch 'em like a hawk.

 

[mechtech2]

Feel it in the steering wheel?
Almost certainly it is one or both of the front rotors.

What to do?
New rotors are often only just a little more than getting them cut/machined. Some large ones get pricey.
But this rarely fixes itself. New parts are needed.
I believe in cheap rotors and the best pads that you can find.

 

[WTJackalope]

When I owned a Honda I mad the mistake of letting a general repair garage turn the rotors and install new pads. BIG MISTAKE! In less than 5000 miles I had the same problem re-appear

I found out too late that Honda's at the time needed the rotors turned while still on the car via a special piece of machinery. Always had brakes repaired at dealer after that.

Dont know if that is still the case. Mine was a 90 model.

 

[jjcom]

If they're using less salt there than here, you might be ok. I've had many rotors with rust running underneath where the pad rides and coming apart in sheets. For that reason, I normally replace rotors that are suspect in an attempt to avoid future problems.

 

[Ken2]

It is rare that the cast iron rotors actually warp. More likely is an uneven build up of brake pad material.

Try this...remove the rotors and sandpaper them. Remove any possible build up, even if it is not visible to the naked eye. Wash well with brake clean solvent and replace in the same position. You will probably have no more brake judder. The same position is important only because you are comparing before and after cleaning the rotors. If you have a dial indicator, reposition the rotors to find the position with the least run out. While you have the dial out, check to see if there is any warping---probably not. It used to be OK to have 0.007" of runout, but times have changed, and I think the current spec is for 0.003" or less.

"Ceramic" in pad material is a floating term. There is no standard on how much ceramic is needed to market the pads as ceramic. More important is how the pads perform, and someone here likely has experience. A high ceramic content is best for clean wheels and not best for heat dissipation.

 

[ludey]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
....front brake issues or rear brake issues?

I get a shimmy via the steering wheel in my '05 Accord with 54k miles when I depress the brake pedal. It's more prevalent at higher speeds (65 mph+).

When I was at the Bridgestone dealer last week to replace my chopped Turanza Serenitys (with only 22k miles on 'em), he said I needed new pads on the rear brakes. He didn't comment on the front brakes.

For some reason, I was thinking the shimmy via the steering wheel was more indicative of front brake issues.



I had the same problem before. I agree it is the front brakes. I just changed out the brake pads out not the rotors b/c it is only at high speeds 50+mph that I had vibration. It just continually got worse but only after 50mpough h and braking. I thought it weird b/c if it is warped. It should be felt more frequently and at lower speeds. I heard from another person with a acura having the same problem. He just replaced the pads. He had the same symptoms of only experiencing in high speeds and getting shimmy. He resolved it by just replacing the front pads.

Going on that. I replaced my Odyssey front pads(Raybestos Adv. Tech-Ceramic pads) on the front on Monday. It seemed to have resolve the problem. I guess it was just brake pad deposits. I cleaned the rotors on both sides with brake cleaner and changed out pads and brake hardware.

If you want to save some money. You could clean out the rotors and check and adjust the brake hardware. I think one of the brake hardware-(brake pad backplate&hold down clips) was also causing a problem.

I had a problem one day in which my wheels were screeching like a sharp abrasion sound. I got it to stop by reversing. I thought it was a rock.

However, I noticed when I changed out the pads. I noticed the brake pad backing plate fell off without anything touching it. I am guessing it was loose the whole time and may have contributed to this.

 

[ChiTDI]

drykan - you certainly have been told enough the shimmy is probably from the front, warped rotors in all likelihood.
The dealer (local tech) did mention you needed rear brakes. I don't know the brake replacement history of the vehicle, but if you are handy as you say, take a good look at the caliper/pad action on those rear rotors. A sticking caliper or ill fitting pad can cause uneven (and quick) wear. Possibly uneven braking and a cfactor that might add to the shimmy. I'd clean and lube those rear brakes well, see if that provides any insight.