Is 10W-30 an Obsolete Viscosity Grade?

[Blue99]

Is 10W-30 an obsolete PCMO grade?

Yes, the majority of new vehicle warranties are based on 5W-20 and 5W-30.

But 10W-30 usage still outpaces either of the 5W oils.

See page 20 of This Citgo Presentation on Base Oils . (PDF File Warning)

During 2004, more 10W-30 was produced than the combined totals of 5W-20 & 5W-30. The projection for 2008 shows the combined total of the 5W oils overtaking 10W-30, but on an individual basis 10W-30 will still be ahead of either 5W oil.

So, regardless of whatever label is attached to the viscosity grade, 10W-30 is still a major crankcase fill for the US passenger car/light truck market.

 

[Tom NJ]

Hi Blue,

Dispite the engine manufacturer's efforts to get people to use thinner oils, the general public is apparently still a bit wary, associating thicker as better. So long as the public demands this grade, the oil companies will have to supply it. Over time the engine manufacturer's will shift that demand, probably to make the 5W-30 the largest selling grade, but the 5W-20 will take a lot more time.

Tom

 

[Blue99]

Thanks for the post, Tom. Good to see you're still around.

Another key point is that the auto manufacturer's still recognize the 10W-30 grade by allowing it to be certified under the ILSAC GF-4 standards.

I think a non-ILSAC approval would indeed push 10W-30 towards scrap heap status.

 

[T-Keith]

Common knowledge apears to be behind the times about 10-20 years when it comes to oil. People refuse to let go of old thinking and pass it on to everyone.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

The simple answer is Yes, it is becoming obsolete by the generation. Of course it is manufactured because it sales and to be honest appears less expensive to make than a 5w30 or 5w20 oil so it is a high profit product. With very few factory recomendations it will eventually fall by the wayside and who knows if ILSAC will certify it for GF5?

 

[Gene K]

Nothing wrong with a good 10W-30. Amsoil anyone?

Yes, currently most 5W-30 is better built oil but this a recent development. It took Mobil 1 20+ years of intense advertising and promotion to get any significant market penetration.

 

[q2bruiser]

Quote:

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Hi Blue,

Dispite the engine manufacturer's efforts to get people to use thinner oils, the general public is apparently still a bit wary, associating thicker as better. So long as the public demands this grade, the oil companies will have to supply it. Over time the engine manufacturer's will shift that demand, probably to make the 5W-30 the largest selling grade, but the 5W-20 will take a lot more time.

Tom

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The public has nothing to do with it. DCX requires/recommends it for my 2006 Wrangler (4.0).

JKH

 

[Blue99]

- A quote from the Havoline synthetic product data sheet, dated 3-09-06:

"SAE 10W-30 provides good all-weather performance in the most popular viscosity grade."

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I thought 10W-30 was still the #1 passenger vehicle seller? How can that make it obsolete?

 

[Stainless]

I am just gonna +1 what G2Bruiser said.

The manual for the 2006 Jeep Wrangler with the 4.0L I-6 specifically states "use 10W-30"

If the jeep has the I-4, the manual states "use 5W-30"

 

[JohnBrowning]

If we are talking dino oil then no 10W30 is not obsolete at all as it tends to shear far less then 5W30's. If we are talking synthetic oil's then yes for most purposes 10W30 is mostly just takeing up shelf space as most true GIV,GV 5W30 synthetic's are shear stable and will do everything their 10W30 counter parts will do.I do not know if anyone makes an all dino 5W20 I think they are all blends. I really do not see it as a problem because everything that does good on 5W20 will do just as well on any other weight of oil so people are not hurting anything.Their are still alot of vechiles onthe road that are 7-15 or more years old so 5W30 and 5W20 are not what was recomended at the time. A prime example is my wifes 1997 Buick Lasaber it recomends 10W30. GM currently only spec.'s 5W20 in the Honda engines it but into the some Saturns as far as I am aware. Their are a lot of older Buick 3.8's out their that called for 10W30.

 

[Gene K]

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The manual for the 2006 Jeep Wrangler with the 4.0L I-6 specifically states "use 10W-30"

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The design of the AMC - JEEP - DC I6 goes back to the 1960's. They tend to like thicker oils.
While still under warranty you could go with something like Pennzoil 10W-30 High Mileage (12.0 cSt @ 100*C).
After that most get better results with 5W-40.

 

[427Z06]

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Hi Blue,

Dispite the engine manufacturer's efforts to get people to use thinner oils, the general public is apparently still a bit wary, associating thicker as better. So long as the public demands this grade, the oil companies will have to supply it. Over time the engine manufacturer's will shift that demand, probably to make the 5W-30 the largest selling grade, but the 5W-20 will take a lot more time.

Tom

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The public has nothing to do with it. DCX requires/recommends it for my 2006 Wrangler (4.0).

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YES...the public is the MAJOR driving force for the continued production of 10w30 despite ONE ancient engine design's requirement for it. It's also the only grade that allows Group I as the majority basestock in SM/GF-4 formulations. You can bet Group I producers are more than happy letting the public continue to believe there's some sort of advantage to using dino 10w30.

Now if we're talking about premium synthetics, the story changes significantly, since 10w30 is one of the few grades that can be made without any VIIs.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I can speak for myself and I am sure that their are others like me on this site. I took me about three years on this site before I was ready to try a 0W30 as an experiment and even then I was not happy about it! It did work ok but no better then my 5W40's and 10W30's did even dureing the winter. I am willing to run any 5W30 though that has high ester content and more additives then API SL GF3 or GF4 will allow though.So I am now open to things like Redline 5W30,Amsoil S3K 5W30,VP 5W30,Motul double ester 5W30 etc... If not for this site though I do not think that I would ever have been willing to buy a 5W30 even an ester based one. I would gone for the 10W40 or the 5W40 every time. So their are people willing to change it just takes a lot of evidence from UOA and professional Triboligists like Terry Dyson and others. I also think it depends on the engine and manufacture becasue some engines clearly favor one particular viscosity while others show no real preference. Take my 2AZ-FE from what I have seen it does not care what viscosity you put in it from 5W30-15W40. Then you have engines like the LS1 that clearly likes a thick 30WWt. or thin 40Wt.! Their is the Jeep 4.0 V6 and it clearly like a 40Wt. even though 10W30 is what is recomended so most find a thick 30 Wt. works great as does a 5W40 in these engines. So their is more to this game then simply what is printed on the oil fill cap in some cases!

 

[427Z06]

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If we are talking dino oil then no 10W30 is not obsolete at all as it tends to shear far less then 5W30's. If we are talking synthetic oil's then yes for most purposes 10W30 is mostly just takeing up shelf space as most true GIV,GV 5W30 synthetic's are shear stable and will do everything their 10W30 counter parts will do...

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You've got this backwards. And shearing is much, much less of a concern than having the oil deteriorating and leaving deposits. Having a little less viscosity won't kill an engine in short order like a thicker oil that leaves enough deposits to cause the piston rings to stick.

And if you don't believe me, just look at all the API and ACEA tests. The vast majority are related to cleanliness.

Dino 10w30 is redundant. Synthetic 10w30, on the other hand, does serve a purpose, since you can make it without VIIs.

 

[427Z06]

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...Then you have engines like the LS1 that clearly likes a thick 30WWt. or thin 40Wt...

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If you NEED a 40 wt in your LS1, you either need an oil cooler, or need to fix the engine.

 

[dwendt44]

There are some stores around here that carry very little 10W-40. Havaline and a house brand, that's it.
Most brands are there, but in the thinner grades/weights.
Mobil-1 in 0W-40, but no 15W-50 EP.

 

[Rhoyd]

So if my owner's manual says to use a 10W-30 or a 5W-30 depending on ambient temps I should be using the 5W-30?

I do live in S.W. Florida where temps get to close to 100 and done to about 30 now and then...

 

[427Z06]

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So if my owner's manual says to use a 10W-30 or a 5W-30 depending on ambient temps I should be using the 5W-30?

I do live in S.W. Florida where temps get to close to 100 and done to about 30 now and then...

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Make and model, engine?

 

[Drew99GT]

I'm a 10w-30 to 5w-30 convert. Viscosity loss is about equal between the 2 grades after perusing all the UOAs. It rarely gets over 100 F in my local and it usually at least a couple times a year goes below 0.

After doing a start at -10 (that was after it had warmed from about -17) last winter with 10w-30 and CD-2 oil slob additive, NEVER AGAIN will I have a 10w in my crankcase, at least in winter.

If you want thicker than 5w-30, 10w-30 sure ain't the answer! They're both the same viscosity at operating temp. 5w-40 would be a better choice and it's what I'm gonna be moving to once my stash is used up.