Interesting read on coolants

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This was posted on a Crown Vic forum I frequent. Thought it might be an interesting read for some.
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Originally Posted By: stalag
Dear fellow car lovers,

I owned a 97 mercury grand marquis with the handling package that was destroyed by a driver that rearended me at 40 mi/hr when I was at a dead stop. My replacement car was a 2001 Lincoln Town Car Cartier L. Due to lack of engine coolant maintenance I was forced to replace my head gaskets on my 4.6L engine. I did a little research on coolant types and found the following. For reference you might want to check the website for Zerex brand coolants and Caterpillar Tractor company's pamphlets on fluid types. Yes you saw right Caterpillar. I will explain in a moment.

I am a scientist with a Ph'D in chemistry and do understand coolants since chemists deal with materials. The best coolant for heat transfer is water for your engines. This statement is verified both in the physical properties of water and by engineers who have tested water as a heat transfer fluid. But water has 2 problems with it that argue against using only water as a heat transfer agent.

1. Water, being a "universal solvent", will disolve many things. Engines have surfaces of copper, iron, aluminum, tin, and other metal alloys that make up the engine. Since salts will develop over time due to disolved carbon dioxide (carbonic acid) in water and heat, when water is in direct contact with these metal surfaces, corrosion will develop and engine damage will result.

2. Water also expands when it freezes and will cause cracking in the block and heads when it freezes.

To deal with the freezing problem very early in coolant history, methanol and ethanol mixtures with water were used. This is a problem since both alcohols will burn quite nicely and will lead to problems with fires. An alternative was found though with the substitution of ethylene glycol mixtures with water as a freezing point depressant in mixtures with water. This has been so successful that this type of coolant mixture predominates in the market today and has been used with variations for over 70 years. However for some who may be environmentally concious, propylene glycol is marketed as a substitute antifreeze but is not recommended by any engine manufacturer in existence today. The reason is heat transfer. Water, with an arbitrary heat transfer value of one, compares with ethylene glycol with a heat transfer capacity about half as much as water with propylene glycol having a heat tranfer capacity of one quarter that of water. Modern engines create tremendous amounts of heat and the coolant is needed to conduct the heat away from parts that may melt, bend, or warp when exposed directly to the heat of burning gasoline.

If you notice I said nothing about corrosion. Corrosion problems have been noted for many decades in engines which lead to the development of additive packages for coolants. One note however needs to be made here about the color of coolants. Any coolant can be dyed whatever color is desired by the purchaser of the coolant. As a result, do not rely solely on the color of the coolant to tell you the type of coolant. Also in discussion with a Zerex representative about coolants it was mentioned there is no "universal coolant" with a corrosion additive package that is compatible with all coolants. So do not get caught in this trap.

This said there are 4 different types of coolants with additive packages that are not cross compatible with each other. However all of the coolants contain ethylene glycol for freeze suppression and some sort of buffered basic salt additives for corrosion inhibition. I will name the coolant types in order of use.

1. The first is called Inorganic Acid Technology (IAT). This type of coolant has been around for many decades and works quite well when maintained. This is used both in cars and in heavy trucks with different levels of anticorrosion inhibitors used depending on application. Since silicate salts are a major substituent in these coolants most of these coolants are opaque due to the undissolved silicates in the coolant. This, plus depletion of the corrosion protection additives over a relatively short period of time, requires this type of coolant to be changed every 2 years. This type of coolant is used in all pre 2001 Ford products with the exception for Dexcool as noted below.

2. The next type is Dexcool. This coolant is an organic acid technology coolant (OAT) and was developed by GM for extended service intervals. Ford did try this out in one of there vehicles for 1999 but found so many problems with this type of coolant they discontinued use of this coolant. The main problem is that this coolant uses 1,4-benzenedicarboxylic acid as one of the buffer constituents in the coolant. Coupled with ethylene glycol in the presence of oxygen and metal oxides, this will form a brown sludge in the coolant. Every mechanic including former GM mechanics recommend flushing and changing to a different coolant type AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. As far as I know, you must not use any coolant that is Dexcool or Dexcool compatible in your vehicle under any circumstances.

3. The third type is the G-05 spec coolant. This coolant uses a Nitrated Organic Acid Technology (NOAT) additive package. This type is used by Ford, Chrysler, Audi, and Mercedes Benz among others. This is a good coolant but needs servicing every 3 years. You will find this in all 2001 and later Ford products.

4. The forth type is Caterpillar's EC-1 specification coolant. To meet this specification you must test 6 engines for 6000 hours of use with at least one engine having a radiator with an aluminum core and one engine having a copper/lead solder core. It is required when these engines are finished testing you test both the coolant and tear apart the engine to note any wear/corrosion in the engine. The specifications are writen so tightly that to pass essentially you should have no corrosion or wear in the engine. When I asked a Caterpillar representative about use of their coolant type and did they see any coolant related issues their answer was no if all their recomendations are followed to the letter. This unique coolant will last for up to 6 years or 600,000 miles if you follow Caterpillar's recomendations. Since they build engines for 24/7 operation with little downtime for maintenace, this is a big thing they have done to improve reliability of their product.

All coolants use water for dilution to get the freeze protection. Common dilutions are a 1:1 ratio glycol/water for -34F freeze protection or 3:2 ratio of glycol/water for -54F freeze protection. All coolant manufacturers and engine manfactures today require the use of distilled water or deionized water in their coolant mixtures. This is due to dissolved salts in the water from standard tap water, well water, or drinking water that create scale inside the engine block and block the coolant passages. This said the recommended procedure for changing coolant (rarely followed) is below. This procedure will flush any old stubborn dirt (think corrosion) out of the block.


1. Flush old coolant out of cooling system with distilled water until water runs clear. This will take about 20 gallons of water in a Ford Crown Victoria/Mecury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car or other 4.6 liter Ford engine.

2. Drain water in coolant resevoir and radiator and add coolant concentrate to restore 1:1 ratio or 3:2 ratio of glycol/water in coolant.

3. Make sure there is no air pockets left in the engine before running down the road.

To change coolant types from the old green coolant to either the late model Ford G-05 coolant or Caterpillar's EC-1 coolant following the recomendation of Caterpillar for changing from the old IAT coolant to the EC-1 coolant is a good way to go.


1. Flush old coolant out of cooling system with distilled water until water runs clear. This will take about 20 gallons of water in a Ford Crown Victoria/Mecury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car or other 4.6 liter Ford engine.

2. Add Caterpillar coolant cleaner and run engine for 30 minutes. (This cleaner is less harsh on the cooling system and will get your engine clean)

3. Flush cleaner mixture out of cooling system with distilled water until water runs clear. This will take about 20 gallons of water in a Ford Crown Victoria/Mecury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car or other 4.6 liter Ford engine.

4. Drain water in coolant resevoir and radiator and add coolant concentrate (Either G-05 or EC-1 coolant) to restore 1:1 ratio or 3:2 ratio of glycol/water in coolant.

5. Make sure there is no air pockets left in the engine before running down the road.

I used this procedure in my 2001 Lincoln Town Car and have found that I pulled a lot of black sludge out of my engine and now I find the engine warms faster and runs better than before. It is in all cases better to maintain coolant properly than to spend $3000 on a head gasket/intake manifold replacement as I had to do.

Good luck


Source
 
No date on the writeup. Maybe old info? Certainly Dexcool has had its problems, but its not as straight forward as the writer suggests. In a vehicle designed for Dexcool its the right coolant. In fact its probably best to keep the type of coolant that came with your car to begin with. Worst is the AMAM stuff (Dexclone) at Walmart. Not saying to use only coolant from the dealer. Thee are many types of coolant available from Zerex. If you have an old vehicle, you would be safe moving up to Peak Global or G-05 (with a water flush).
 
I agree on using factory coolants in Foreign cars, unless you have a PhD in Chemistry and a thorough understanding of coolants.

Dexcool is okay in newer cars using it from the factory. Early problems were due to poor/incompatible gaskets and mixing it with other coolants.

Always good idea to completely drain and flush when switching coolants.
 
whole issue is far too complicated. what started this mess? gms use of dexcool?

How do the japanese avoid all these issues?
I just use the Toyota factory OEM fluid .
 
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Good info, but I registered at that forum to ask the OP about about Cat ELC because it's my understanding that it is Dexcool with added/additional Nitrites and Molybdates.

He also states that Peak only has Dexcool clones in it's lineup. And suspects PGL is a Dexclone and makes no mention of Final Charge.

I will be interesting to hear his response since he is far more knowledgeable than me.
 
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Peak Global is NOT a DexClone. Peak Extended is.

All the car companies see "extended anything" as a value add for their company, be it coolant or spark plugs of ATF. Thus the desire to go to an extended life coolant, and all the other companies did the same.

The best coolant out there is JD CG II. A little pricey, but worth it if you have an expensive vehicle.
 
^Donald, I have AM/AM Prestone in my Civic, 1992.

Guys, this sort of thread keeps slapping my peace of mind.

What is the best method of flushing this 'cheap' coolant out without using flush chemicals? I can only afford a rinse and conversion.

I've thought about distilled water flushes AFTER draining the radiator and 'possibly' the block drain bolt.

BUT: Is it harder to get close to 50/50 with a premix OR should I buy a concentrate green like Beck/Arnley offer? I can get their concentrated version for $23 or so. It claims:

Quote:
Beck/Arnley Premium OE Antifreeze/Coolant utilizes Phosphated Organic Acid Technology also known as Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) and contains no amines or borates and is free of silicates that may harm water pump seals and cause gel formation which may clog the radiator. MIX WITH EQUAL PARTS DISTILLED WATER.


Their FAQ:

FAQ

It seems their GREEN CONCENTRATE might be similar to Peak's Global.
 
You don't need flush chemicals. Flush it with water a few times. Of course a last flush with distilled water is best, but if you can drain the block and radiator, there is only a little plain water left in the heater core. I would then go with Peak Global or Zerex G-05. Not familiar with Beck/Arnley but they typically make quality products. Some Walmarts carry Peak Global.
 
B/A claims the same suppliers for dealership coolant make their brand B/A labeled OE coolants.

I think before tax one local dealership wanted $15 for the 50/50 Type-II Honda Genuine.

The reason I want to avoid G-05 is silicates for this older system and why would I not use Zerex Asian instead if going with Zerex?

Willing to learn, you've been helpful a lot sir. Thank you.

Where is that crazy coolant comparisons chart when you need it!
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Originally Posted By: edwardh1
whole issue is far too complicated. what started this mess? gms use of dexcool?

How do the japanese avoid all these issues?
I just use the Toyota factory OEM fluid.


I think the Japanese and VW/Audi have the exact same issue, if not even more complicated. We just choose not to look at it that way.

VW/Audi uses G11 and a bunch of other coolants. They are marketed by two or three manufacturers. They all seem to disagree with each other as to whether or not the various VW/Audi types can be mixed and/or substituted.

When it comes to the Japanese, a lot of them use their own proprietary coolant. At least there are licenced Dexcool options. Zerex Asian doesn't have any manufacturers' approvals, at least to my knowledge.

So, unless a vehicle specifies Dexcool or G-05 (or VW/Audi G series if you can find it or the old original green), one is stuck buying the OEM coolant or hoping for the best with what a coolant manufacturer claims is suitable.

So, how has GM complicated matters? As far as coolant goes, I wish I had a modern GM. Then, I'd be able to buy concentrate or diluted fluid, with proper manufacturers approvals, from at least three brands off the shelf anywhere at a reasonable price.

G-05 is hard to find except at the dealer, and at high prices. The same applies to the VW/Audi fluids and most Japanese vehicles. GM may went to attach "dex" to all kinds of product names, but at least they're available.
 
Good points Garak and I agree.

As far as the original article, he has some good points but the guy is too critical of Dexcool and praises Cat EC-1 which is really just Dexcool.
 
On an older vehicle with old green from the factory it had silicates. In a larger amount than today's old green. G-05 has low silicates. Silicates do lay down protection on bare metal, so they are there for a reason. Zerex G-05 is available at NAPA.
 
I must have missed Dexcool turning to sludge in our vehicles. Otherwise, it has some good points in it. I think he should have stayed out of criticism of coolant technologies.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Good points Garak and I agree.

As far as the original article, he has some good points but the guy is too critical of Dexcool and praises Cat EC-1 which is really just Dexcool.


I haven't had a GM in years, and people may criticize dexos. However, at least I can easily find dexos1 oil, Dexron ATF, and Dexcool antifreeze at just about any store that sells automotive products. G-05 here is a problem. Some Walmarts have it, but usually only the diluted - one has the concentrate once in a while. The Chrysler and Ford dealers charge twice as much for G-05 as Walmart does, when Walmart actually has it.

If one has an Audi or VW, one needs to go to the dealer or find an independent European mechanic that might stock some. And, it's not going to be cheap. At least there are a couple manufacturers that have actual VW/Audi approval.

The Asian cars have got to be the worst of all. People complain (wrongly, in my view) that dexos1 violates the MM Act in the States. Okay. They need to tell me, then, what coolant is actually approved to use, say, in my Infiniti G that isn't Nissan/Infiniti OEM coolant. Or for my transmission fluid.

There are at least four readily available, approved Dexcools that I can think of off the top of my head. There are more dexos1 oils than one can shake a stick at. There's more than enough Dexron brands to go around.

So, how did Dexcool complicate the matter? If my manual says to use Dexcool, I can get Zerex, Prestone, Texaco, or go to the dealer. This is complicated?
 
I agree with your points again. What complicated things was all the other automakers dragging their feet and not adopting dexcool type coolant. Instead they all wanted to have their own different formulas. If anything I think Japanese makes with their proprietary coolant and ATF violate the spirit of the MM Act.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
On an older vehicle with old green from the factory it had silicates. In a larger amount than today's old green. G-05 has low silicates. Silicates do lay down protection on bare metal, so they are there for a reason. Zerex G-05 is available at NAPA.


Is old green what Civics and Hondas used in 1992? Just trying to learn. New to coolants really.

I'm curious because, IIRC, my current use of Prestone's AM/AM 50/50 premix (cant recall if it was "Long Life" or not) states no silicates.

Its important to me in order to overly scrutinize potential increases in silicon in my UOAs. Is that a fair reason?
 
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