Interesting comparison between LEV and EV

We’re told that EVs are always cleaner, but I asked Grok to analyze how long you could drive the average low-emissions vehicle and have lower overall emissions than a pure EV that was operated with “worst-case” conditions.

Even I was surprised at the results; even in California with their “green” energy focus, your average new Subaru will be responsible for fewer emissions than an inefficiently-run EV for ten years and 100,000 miles!

If you change the analysis to the average electricity in the US to charge that EV, the crossover point where the gas-powered car has created more emissions is 15 years and 150,000 miles, or longer than the life expectancy of the car. Crazy that we’ve been told that EVs are going to reduce emissions.

I’ve said I don’t care that EVs are sold; for some people they do make sense. But I have a problem when the data doesn’t match the claim. People should be free to choose what fits their needs.

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What about ULEV vehicles? I'm not sure what the criteria for those vs lev vehicles. From what I've read Subarus with a ULEV engine what comes out the tailpipe is cleaner than the air in places like New Delhi. Recently a news report from New Delhi showed the atrocious air pollution, it looked like 1940's Pittsburgh.
 
I charge my Mach E with solar power. But then, I guess you could attack me over the costs of making those solar panels.

Our driving cars are the Mach E, my wife's Hybrid Accord and my VW Jetta TDI. The Accord often gets 60 mpg while my VW only gets 48 - 50 mpg. Pretty efficient, but I make up for it with my boat and pickup.

I do not understand why a car is not made that runs on electric only but also has a very efficient engine to make electricity to power the drive motors and charge the batteries. The engineering ought to be much simpler than hybrid technology.
Plug in hybrids are in the market, and they are more sophisticated than charging the battery from gas. Some are extremely economical on gas. Many people use only a few gals per year. 60-70 mpg using the combination gas and electric on some models is not unheard of. Cheaper than electric charging at a station on a highway.
 
I charge my Mach E with solar power. But then, I guess you could attack me over the costs of making those solar panels.

Our driving cars are the Mach E, my wife's Hybrid Accord and my VW Jetta TDI. The Accord often gets 60 mpg while my VW only gets 48 - 50 mpg. Pretty efficient, but I make up for it with my boat and pickup.

I do not understand why a car is not made that runs on electric only but also has a very efficient engine to make electricity to power the drive motors and charge the batteries. The engineering ought to be much simpler than hybrid technology.
Lighten up, Francis, nobody was “attacking” anybody. It was a rational discussion of issues. Of science.

@JeffKeryk charges on solar. Nearly everyone else uses the grid. If you use solar, good for you.

Harry Grepke, in the September 1975 issue of Popular Science, showed off his car that had a small gas turbine, which drove a generator, to charge the battery banks, that fed the electric motor.

So, such a car as you suggest was proposed, with a working prototype, 50 years ago.

However, it had a much larger battery bank, in mass, and weight, and capacity, than a modern hybrid.

To do what you suggest is basically how a plug in hybrid operates - with enough battery capacity, and a large enough electric motor, to drive the car on pure electricity, with a gasoline engine to back up the range and provide charging.
 
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Lighten up, Francis, nobody was “attacking” anybody. It was a rational discussion of issues. Of science.

@JeffKeryk charges on solar. Nearly everyone else uses the grid. If you use solar, good for you.

Harry Grepke, in the September 1975 issue of Popular Science, showed off his car that had a small gas turbine, which drove a generator, to charge the battery banks, that fed the electric motor.

So, such a car as you suggest was proposed, with a working prototype, 50 years ago.

However, it had a much larger battery bank, in mass, and weight, and capacity, than a modern hybrid.

To do what you suggest is basically how a plug in hybrid operates - with enough battery capacity, and a large enough electric motor, to drive the car on pure electricity, with a gasoline engine to back up the range and provide charging.
The new RAM 1500 Ramcharger is this setup. Large (92kWh) battery with a 3.6L Pentastar that just runs a generator:
https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html
 
Car engines burning fuel everywhere and electric generation maybe burning fuel, maybe not, in a regulated fashion. There is no comparison. Older people here remember the smog filled skies. Then there is your electric use at home, is anyone saying they are polluting using their a/c? I’ve never heard anyone say that.
Smog days were primarily a result of coal plants without scrubbers. With the shift to gas from coal, and the fitment of scrubbers, that pretty much eliminated those.

Coal produces considerably more emissions than gasoline or diesel, but yes, they are dispersed into the atmosphere, not emitted at ground level, which is why ground-level pollution in cities is such a problem, because it's localized.

Plenty of people are definitely polluting using their A/C, if it's powered by fossil fuels. ERCOT right now isn't looking too hot:
1748285494317.webp


While my A/C is primarily powered by nukes and hydro, even when the wind decides to bugger off like it did today:
1748285546376.webp
 
I'm willing to bet if you gave Gemini, Claude, and ChatGPT the same prompt, at least one would disagree with the others. There's also at least one obvious math error in what you posted: 14.9 is not greater than 12-15.
 
I'm willing to bet if you gave Gemini, Claude, and ChatGPT the same prompt, at least one would disagree with the others. There's also at least one obvious math error in what you posted: 14.9 is not greater than 12-15.
Claude tried to tell me that 0W-40 was going to damage my Mazda 3 2.5. Then when challenged on the basis for that reasoning will reverse course. Aside from often being wrong, you can essentially guide any of these LLMs to whatever conclusion you wish it to reach if the topics you are asking about are not crystal clear. Any implicit bias in your prompt is often reflected in the output.
 
A nuke turbine with 3x LP stages and 1x HP stage is around 31-32% efficient. Fossil turbines are a bit more efficient, because they run higher temperatures. But, for the sake of this discussion, a Darlington unit produces 2,776MWth, which in turn, produces 880MWe.

So, just applying 32% to your 147kWh figure, 147kWh generated on the thermal side equates to 47kWh on the electrical side. And that doesn't factor in transmission or conversion losses.
And that's still way more than the average EV would use to go 100 miles at 80mph. Maybe that's what a Silverado EV would use at 9k lbs.
 
And that's still way more than the average EV would use to go 100 miles at 80mph. Maybe that's what a Silverado EV would use at 9k lbs.
My e-tron had a range of 312km (194 miles) with an 88kWh battery. So we are pretty much bang-on for half the battery capacity to use up half the range without accounting for conversion losses or transmission 🤷‍♂️
 
Lighten up, Francis, nobody was “attacking” anybody. It was a rational discussion of issues. Of science.

@JeffKeryk charges on solar. Nearly everyone else uses the grid. If you use solar, good for you.

Harry Grepke, in the September 1975 issue of Popular Science, showed off his car that had a small gas turbine, which drove a generator, to charge the battery banks, that fed the electric motor.

So, such a car as you suggest was proposed, with a working prototype, 50 years ago.

However, it had a much larger battery bank, in mass, and weight, and capacity, than a modern hybrid.

To do what you suggest is basically how a plug in hybrid operates - with enough battery capacity, and a large enough electric motor, to drive the car on pure electricity, with a gasoline engine to back up the range and provide charging.
Being a staff member allows you to be a jerk?
 
Car engines burning fuel everywhere and electric generation maybe burning fuel, maybe not, in a regulated fashion. There is no comparison. Older people here remember the smog filled skies. Then there is your electric use at home, is anyone saying they are polluting using their a/c? I’ve never heard anyone say that.
Nor any proof that modern gasoline engines are polluting anymore than other sources.
You said it right here, 300 million vehicles on the road and the smog is gone and still improving as older vehicles are retired and commercial trucks require more emission standards.

Of course you are polluting the air running your AC if burning fossil fuel, no longer a concern of mine but if it is anyones, start lobbying to fast track back to Nuclear power.
 
Being a staff member allows you to be a jerk?
Friend, I humbly suggest we take a breath. Spoken words can be taken in various ways; the written word is far more susceptible to interpretation. In my experience, @Astro14 can be direct, but he does not mean it in an offensive way. He likes to get to the point.
We have all been misunderstood (you, Astro and me included), and possibly have been knuckleheads at one time or another. I have.
I've been read the riot act a few times, but in my case I probably deserved it! Ha!
I've also learned to apologize when my words were wrong or taken out of my intended contest. Effective communication is hard.

Heck, try being a Tesla fan here in the ICE lion's den... Keep your guard up!

All good. BITOG for the win.
 
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Yet it's still 1/3 the cost per mile to drive an EV for me. Maybe that will change in the future, but driving 20k miles a year makes a huge difference especially when the vehicle cost is similar and the EV doesn't have the usual scheduled services of the performance ICE vehicles I've purchased in the past and I didn't include that in the 1/3 less cost.

For more money I can have a slower car with less performance yet similar performane modes that cost more per mile to drive with expensive oil changes. I'm just not doing it. If I wanted to I'd buy a Golf R. It's almost $10k more and they don't offer special financing. It would have been $300 more per month not counting the cost to drive it.

For me it's not even close.
The depreciation of EV is pretty insane now. It’s a massive factor with Tesla being the least worst however it’s bad. Slightly used is way to go with EV.
 
The depreciation of EV is pretty insane now. It’s a massive factor with Tesla being the least worst however it’s bad. Slightly used is way to go with EV.
Whoever got our '18 M3 Mid Range got a pretty nice car for very low $20K.
A good used Model 3 is a great buy, IMO. If you can charge at home, you just might fall in love with the car.
 
The depreciation of EV is pretty insane now. It’s a massive factor with Tesla being the least worst however it’s bad. Slightly used is way to go with EV.
Yes and better still is if the car qualifies for the $4,000 taxpayer gift. I think, those cars however might carry a premium from some smart dealers and be bought up quickly if the price isnt inflated because of it.
 
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