Interesting car reliability data from Germany

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think they take everything serious in Germany. My grandfather was German and holy poo was he anal...... My buddy Peter, who's a million years old, also German... insanely anal about everything, and nuts about precision, quality and cleanliness. It seems to be genetic, LOL!
 
Considering how virtually NOTHING is taken seriously in the US, and the DISGUSTING lack of professionalism in every part of business in the US I like it a lot, yes, I am of German descent as well, so perhaps it is genetic.

There is NOTHING that annoys me more than dealing with a business situation where there is little or NO pride, professionalism, or diligence to be found among the employees.
 
States that don't do vehicle inspections at a garage have similar laws about the condition you have to keep your vehicle in. Nowhere can you drive with 1/32" tire tread or a missing catalytic converter.

I would rather choose a mechanic I'm comfortable with, out of hundreds if not thousands, any time within the month I'm due. Get a sticker on my windshield and the cops will leave me alone, barring glaring offences.

Without that, I'd get profiled for driving something old and decrepit looking, and pulled over constantly by a policeman I didn't choose, at a time that's invariably inconvenient for a roadside inspection.

Co-incidentally, states that do inspections also require used car dealers to sell "safe" (as legally defined) cars, or at least disclose known defects.
 
To be blunt, inspection programs in the US are not worth the time and expense. I challenge anyone to find a scientific study showing a statistically measurable difference in accident or fatality rates due to a state having an inspection program. Unfortunately, they do not exist, and the programs continue as "make work" for dishonest shops looking to make an easy buck.

If implemented as done in Germany, I'm sure it would have some value.
 
I'm amazed even with the supposedly rigorous inspection program here the number of cars with completely bald tires, massive holes in the body, and serious suspension issues driving around.
 
In NJ they use to do rudimentary safety inspections. Then it was safety plus emission testing. Now it's just checking your OBDII port for codes and stored codes. Earlier vehicles still go through a "sniffer" emission test. If they see blatant safety problems they won't fail you but will "recommend" fixing them. However if the police pull you over for any infraction and see a unsafe vehicle situation or observe an unsafe vehicle you will be ticketed and in some cases towed off the road.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Our vehicle test here is once a year for cars up to five years old and once ever six months afterwards. It's similar and nearly as strict as the TUV, having been through both. We need it otherwise some here people would drive anything that moves. It doesn't help that there is no financial liability placed on individuals for injuring others.


There's your problem right there. Every 6 months seems a tad excessive doesn't it?
 
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Considering how virtually NOTHING is taken seriously in the US, and the DISGUSTING lack of professionalism in every part of business in the US I like it a lot, yes, I am of German descent as well, so perhaps it is genetic.

There is NOTHING that annoys me more than dealing with a business situation where there is little or NO pride, professionalism, or diligence to be found among the employees.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of screw ups in Germany. Also plenty of people that don't give a [censored] about doing a good job. I know, I've met them. No society has the market cornered on stupidity. Likewise, there are plenty of good hardworking people in the U.S. Statements like yours are too sweeping to ever be true.
 
I've lived in both places and overall the sloppiness ESPECIALLY among the management class in the US is GLARING compared to what you find in Germany. While among the ordinary employees it is less obvious I would still say that the typical worker in Germany is on the whole a bit more competent and diligent at his job.
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
To be blunt, inspection programs in the US are not worth the time and expense. I challenge anyone to find a scientific study showing a statistically measurable difference in accident or fatality rates due to a state having an inspection program. Unfortunately, they do not exist, and the programs continue as "make work" for dishonest shops looking to make an easy buck.

If implemented as done in Germany, I'm sure it would have some value.


Probably going to have to pay to see it:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/197/1/31.abstract

It's tough, though, because no two states are the same; the Northeast is crowded and will have more accidents per mile travelled because there's more "stuff" going on. Northeast also has road salt and most states with inspections, a chicken and egg thing.

Also the states with inspections lead to codependency, where someone won't crawl underneath to check their brake lines for corrosion, because it gets done, or has been done, for them.

I'm following New Jersey with interest because they just dumped the safety portion a year ago or so.
 
To those who suggested inspections infringe on civil liberties, one has to remember that driving is a privilege, not a right. It is well within civil rights for a STATE to determine the requirements to register and operate a motor vehicle in that state.

It seems folks don't have a grasp on how our rights work in the US. I see folks complaining about censorship on private message boards, I see folks complaining about infringing on freedoms when discussing things that are within the realm of states powers.

If someone wants to operate a non-conforming vehicle on their own property, I believe they have the right to do so. However, it is perfectly legitimate for a state to mandate that if you want to operate that vehicle on public roads with other vehicles, then you have to follow certain rules, including rules about insurance, licensing, traffic laws, and vehicle safety.

I suspect with any system, inspections or no inspections there will be unsafe cars on the road. I don't notice more unsafe cars here in IL compared to MO. We have no inspection of personal vehicles. I do believe commercial vehicles are inspected. I know our church vans get inspected every year. Pickups once were inspected. I don't know if that's still the case. Private cars, not inspected.

I believe MO inspects everything, cars, trucks, etc. I see just as many road hazards in each place.

Inspection only proves that one can get the car to pass that inspector. The good tires may come off after the inspection for the "slicks" used for daily driving. Lights may fail as they drive off. The only thing inspection proves is that the owner of the car managed to "pass" and get a sticker. It doesn't prove the car is still safe after driving away from the inspection station.

But if a state chooses to operate in this fashion, it's well within the boundaries of preserving personal liberty as you can drive whatever you want on your personal property. But it's reasonable to expect certain standards be met to operate on public roads.
 
I think the condition of your car is way down the list of accident causes. Most articles list something like these six things as the most common causes of accidents: Six accident causes

1. Distracted driver. 2. Driver fatigue. 3. Drunk driving. 4. Speeding. 5. Aggressive driving. 6. Weather.

This study says that only 2.4% are caused by mechanical failure: Human failure
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Radman
Originally Posted By: mhadden
I dislike government intervention, but sometimes I wish we had car inspections here in the States.


I wonder if you celebrated the loss of civil libertys?
Government Intrusion is never something that I would want or embrace.
Nor do I and thus don't cheer for it (note that I did say "sometimes wish" but did say "want" or need"). I hate government intervention/taxation/involvement just as much as you.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -Thomas Jefferson

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: engineerscott



Believe it or not, there are plenty of screw ups in Germany. Also plenty of people that don't give a [censored] about doing a good job. I know, I've met them. No society has the market cornered on stupidity. Likewise, there are plenty of good hardworking people in the U.S. Statements like yours are too sweeping to ever be true.


I've lived in both places and overall the sloppiness ESPECIALLY among the management class in the US is GLARING compared to what you find in Germany. While among the ordinary employees it is less obvious I would still say that the typical worker in Germany is on the whole a bit more competent and diligent at his job.
Yes, it's a shame that the core American values of hard-working, pride, and workmanship are going into the toilet.
 
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
I think the condition of your car is way down the list of accident causes. Most articles list something like these six things as the most common causes of accidents: Six accident causes

1. Distracted driver. 2. Driver fatigue. 3. Drunk driving. 4. Speeding. 5. Aggressive driving. 6. Weather.

This study says that only 2.4% are caused by mechanical failure: Human failure
I agree that distracted driver and driver fatigue lead to more accidents. Most people are too busy dicking around with their smartphones or their complicated OEM navigation (Ford Sync, anyone?) rather than doing what they are suppose to be doing - driving. The speed issue and aggressive driving is likely more because of inexperience (you can thank our lackadaisical drivers training for that). Equipment failure or abuse may not be a direct factor, but I'm willing to bet it plays a role somewhere in the equation. If a person is abusing the proper care and maintenance of a vehicle, I'm willing to bet it also plays a role in their driving behavior as well.
 
The legislature has tried several times here in NC to get rid of the annual inspection. The minimal effectiveness was not debated it was the auto repair facility lobby that said we needed it. But they could not provide any data that it was effective.
 
MA inspections is more about emissions non-sense than safety.
I moved to Maine and they could care less about the emissions and more about rust, bad suspension, and safety. They actually put the car on lifts and check everything unlike the joke inspection in MA. Remember when they forced all the shops to spend over 100K on the stupid dynos, what a joke!
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Re: state inspections...we've had mandatory safety inspections here in MA since I've been old enough to drive...at least 1970. In the beginning they were rudimentary, but at least would catch bald tires, inop lights, wonky front ends, etc. They're a bit more comprehensive now, but still nowhere near the level they have in the UK, for instance, as I saw on Top Gear. The number of obviously junky cars on the road is dramatically lower now than back then. I know, because that's all I used to drive...
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Radman
Originally Posted By: mhadden
I dislike government intervention, but sometimes I wish we had car inspections here in the States.


I wonder if you celebrated the loss of civil libertys?
Government Intrusion is never something that I would want or embrace.


Michigan doesn't have state inspections, but VA does. It's more of a PITA than anything, being that I keep my cars in good condition, but I think it's necessary, since we all share the roads. I wouldn't call it gov't intrusion, though. We all need reasonable rules to follow. Lack of gov't regulations is more frightening to me. We need an orderly society.
 
Originally Posted By: kelpie
Originally Posted By: Radman
Originally Posted By: mhadden
I dislike government intervention, but sometimes I wish we had car inspections here in the States.


I wonder if you celebrated the loss of civil libertys?
Government Intrusion is never something that I would want or embrace.


Michigan doesn't have state inspections, but VA does. It's more of a PITA than anything, being that I keep my cars in good condition, but I think it's necessary, since we all share the roads. I wouldn't call it gov't intrusion, though. We all need reasonable rules to follow. Lack of gov't regulations is more frightening to me. We need an orderly society.



You've totally missed the point. Many states have gotten rid of the annual inspection because they realized they DON"T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. A person in all 50 states is required to maintain their vehicle or face an improper equipment ticket.No difference equals waste of time and money. But this does not mean you're legally allowed to drive an unsafe vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
You've totally missed the point. Many states have gotten rid of the annual inspection because they realized they DON"T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. A person in all 50 states is required to maintain their vehicle or face an improper equipment ticket.No difference equals waste of time and money. But this does not mean you're legally allowed to drive an unsafe vehicle.


I'd bet my left dangly that is NOT the reason for them dropping it.

A state that I used to live in had mandatory annual pit inspections at 2 state run, utterly impartial inspection stations...yep it was a pain, but they DID pick up useful stuff, like the rear proportioning valve failure in Dad's Renault, which was un-noticeable to the driver.

Chage in Govt, and longer queues meant that another station was required (was planned, but the inspection fee went into consolidated revenue, not saving up for a new centre).

So they dropped the first annual on new cars, then the second, then the third, then started issuing bypasses on a "random" basis, allowing queued vehicles to bypass inspection. Polish the car, black the tyres, and as long as your lights, horns and indicators worked, you got bypassed.

Eventually, they stated just what you are saying "annual inspections mean that the car gets looked at once a year, however if the Police can issue defects, people will be conscious of it all year long".

Problem is Police don't check balljoints, and brake effectiveness on stationary cars.

10 years later, they were blaming drivers for the accident rate which magically climbed sans inspections.

It's still illegalto drive =an unsafe vehicle, but nobody draws it to the average idiot's attention.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

I'd bet my left dangly that is NOT the reason for them dropping it.

A state that I used to live in had mandatory annual pit inspections at 2 state run, utterly impartial inspection stations...yep it was a pain, but they DID pick up useful stuff, like the rear proportioning valve failure in Dad's Renault, which was un-noticeable to the driver.

Chage in Govt, and longer queues meant that another station was required (was planned, but the inspection fee went into consolidated revenue, not saving up for a new centre).

So they dropped the first annual on new cars, then the second, then the third, then started issuing bypasses on a "random" basis, allowing queued vehicles to bypass inspection. Polish the car, black the tyres, and as long as your lights, horns and indicators worked, you got bypassed.

Eventually, they stated just what you are saying "annual inspections mean that the car gets looked at once a year, however if the Police can issue defects, people will be conscious of it all year long".

Problem is Police don't check balljoints, and brake effectiveness on stationary cars.

10 years later, they were blaming drivers for the accident rate which magically climbed sans inspections.

It's still illegalto drive =an unsafe vehicle, but nobody draws it to the average idiot's attention.



Whether or not they dropped inspections because they were or were not effective is immaterial. The state's motivation for dropping the inspection has no bearing on whether or not the inspections are an effective or a wise use of limited resources. Looking at compiled accident data seems to support that very few accidents are caused by mechanical breakdown. Of those that were, many would not have been prevented by inspections. You've got to weigh the costs of these things against whatever good you may be doing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top