Insane or Sane: small oil circulating pump for gen

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
The crankshaft creates considerable force on the oil inside the crankcase. A sump, located below the engine will have no circulation issues as long as there is open flow path. A filter won't work.

Almost always, there are drain plugs 90 degrees to the crankshaft. One side has high impact pressure, one side does not.

The Lister diesel guys even make an internal scoop to direct flow.

Interestingly enough, the sump collects plenty of settled material.


I think/thought these scoops were normally for oil fling lubrication of the piston underside and conrod. I suppose it could do double duty, or is this a special one for this role?

The fact that stuff settles in the secondary sump, while an advantage, suggests the circulation is limited. If there was no circulation at all it would still collect stuff, (since its heavy) but maybe not very much. If there was a lot of circulation it wouldn't settle.

One could perhaps get an idea of the pressures generated by running a manometer tube from the drain plug and observing any pulsation in the meniscus.

 

[jhellwig]

Instead of using a pump you could make a passive system. Drill into the bock above the oil level and make some sort of scoop on the inside of the crank to catch oil off the interior wall and run it out into a tank full of oil. Have a return line from the tank go back into the drain plug hole. As long as the level in the tank is the same as the crankcase or chuck full and below that crankcase gravity will circulate the oil slowly threw.

 

[henni]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Drill into the bock above the oil level and make some sort of scoop on the inside of the crank to catch oil off the interior wall and run it out into a tank full of oil.


Hmm .. I've considered using the Check level/Fill plug as the "catch" which should in theory "throw off" some oil, sent to a carefully level set cooler (a transmission cooler part would be the Tank Full of Oil in this case).

The problem is not knowing precisely how well this would maintain Correct oil level so as to not overfill or cause the shutoff system to stop engine.

With a pump, this problem goes away plus I get to add the remote oil filter kit to the circulation.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: henni
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Drill into the bock above the oil level and make some sort of scoop on the inside of the crank to catch oil off the interior wall and run it out into a tank full of oil.


Hmm .. I've considered using the Check level/Fill plug as the "catch" which should in theory "throw off" some oil, sent to a carefully level set cooler (a transmission cooler part would be the Tank Full of Oil in this case).

The problem is not knowing precisely how well this would maintain Correct oil level so as to not overfill or cause the shutoff system to stop engine.

With a pump, this problem goes away plus I get to add the remote oil filter kit to the circulation.


You could test the passive system by installing exterior sump with clear hose for oil line. You would literally see if the oil was being circulated between sumps from crankshaft pulse.

Obviously not a permanent solution as heat and oil would break clear line down eventually. But this would be a way to test and see if you even need an electric pump.

 

[meep]

eliminating the external pump greatly increases reliability.

OTOH, the system really doesn't have to operate full time anyway. Practically, if the operator ran it for 5 minutes every few hours it would be just as effective.

-m

 

[meep]

^^^ for that matter, would a crankcase vacuum-operated fuel pump suffice? you'd avoid an electric pump, and receive a consistent, low-flow solution?

 

[henni]

Originally Posted By: meep
crankcase vacuum-operated fuel pump


Sourced from ?
Price ?
Installed, how ?

Am almost sure it costs more than my small 2.5 psi $10 amazon fuel pump.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: henni
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Drill into the bock above the oil level and make some sort of scoop on the inside of the crank to catch oil off the interior wall and run it out into a tank full of oil.


Hmm .. I've considered using the Check level/Fill plug as the "catch" which should in theory "throw off" some oil, sent to a carefully level set cooler (a transmission cooler part would be the Tank Full of Oil in this case).

The problem is not knowing precisely how well this would maintain Correct oil level so as to not overfill or cause the shutoff system to stop engine.

With a pump, this problem goes away plus I get to add the remote oil filter kit to the circulation.


As long as you system is below the sump and is completely full the level will never change in the crank case.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: henni
Originally Posted By: meep
crankcase vacuum-operated fuel pump


Sourced from ?
Price ?
Installed, how ?

Am almost sure it costs more than my small 2.5 psi $10 amazon fuel pump.




these are commonly included with OPE engines. The 14.5 HP briggs on my rider uses one. the honda eu2000 genset has one internally. Here's a link, search on "vacuum fuel pump." Got your $10 beat....

https://www.amazon.com/Vacuum-Fuel-Pump-...acuum+fuel+pump

I doubt it's over a psi at best but who knows...

-m

 

[henni]

Originally Posted By: meep
I doubt it's over a psi at best but who knows...


Picture has what looks like 3 ports/adapters -- how and where is this connected ? A hose into each of the 3 heads ?