Information on Subaru Motor Oil

[SubLGT]

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Well, I'm sure you can see where in the Tech Tips that it says it needs to be SM. In the manual on the desk in front of me, it calls for the API Certification starburst. I'm under the impression that we're supposed to follow the guidelines except as modified by any documents from them after the fact. To me this would mean follow what's in the manual, but where it calls for SL, use SM instead. To me, that would mean both that it has to be SM and that it has to have the starburst. So that's what I just emailed SOA about. Since the TechTips doesn't mention the need for the starburst, I wonder if they dropped it?

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In my 2005 Legacy turbo owner's manual, the oil requirements are contradictory. For instance, there is the statement about using oils with the "energy conserving" designation. OTOH, they also allow use of 10W-50 and 20W-50 oils in hot climates, and those viscosities will definitely not have the "energy conserving" designations.

Since the May07 Tech Tips allegedly reflects Subarus latest thinking on oils, I am going to strictly interpret their statement of ".......it only needs to meet GF-4 or SM". They do not state ".......it only needs to meet GF-4 or SM, and Energy Conserving"

 

[Ty Williams]

Like I said, I emailed SOA about it tonight. If my past experience with them holds true, they'll reply by mid-day on Tuesday. If I haven't posted their answer by that evening, kick the thread so I'll get an email reminder and I post the response.

 

[Ty Williams]

OK, so SOA got back to me already. Here's their email, with my email to them below it:

Dear Mr. Williams:

Thank you for visiting the Subaru web site and for your message!

The Starburst mark is the ILSAC marking and is usually found with the API ''circle-in-circle marking''. RedLine may not put the ILSAC marking on their label, just the API marking. As long as the RedLine Oil meets the SM and GF-4 requirement, (and the oil change intervals stay the same as recommended in the Warranty and Maintenance booklet, you should be just fine.

FYI, you can view the certifications of redline oils on their web site:

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

Thank you for your message and if you have any other questions, do not hesitate to reply to this email.

Sincerely,

Samir Hasan
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
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YOUR ORIGINAL MAIL:

I have a 2007 Impreza 2.5i. After seeing the May 2007 Tech Tips, I am a little confused about which oil to be using. The manual mentions requiring the 'New API certification mark (starburst mark) displayed on the container'. The Tech Tips only says that the oil has to meet SM or GF-4 requirements. I am looking at Red Line 5w30, which meets SM and GF-4 requirements. Does this oil fully meet the guidelines for oil for my engine and will it meet the requirements to maintain warranty coverage of my engine?

Thank you for your time,
Ty Williams
First name: Ty
Last name: Williams




OK, so I read this as SOA now no longer cares wither or not the oil is API certified. You can use whatever you want as long as it's the right class. Agree/Disagree?

 

[SubLGT]

1. Mr. Hasan says use oil that meets SM and GF-4.
2. May07 Tech tips says use oil that meets SM or GF-4.
3. The manual says use Energy Conserving oils, then also recommends viscosities that are not Energy Conserving

Conclusion: SOA's oil recommendations are ambiguous and contradictory.

 

[SubLGT]

See the link below for a description of the industrial soap opera that is the SM and GF4 certification process.

http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000251444.cfm

 

[jonny-b]

Here in Norway, you can go 9322 miles(15000km) between services(this is very short intervals, because most other carmakers here, have 18600miles). Is this only because of the difference in oil-qality, or is it because you still can tell most americans that they will have to change their oil at 3000miles?
I guess the oil is not the problem, but Subaru, who wants to earn some easy money.
Besides, if their engines aren't more capable than this, you should buy a Lada from Russia, instead.

 

[SubLGT]

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Here in Norway, you can go 9322 miles(15000km) between services(this is very short intervals, because most other carmakers here, have 18600miles). Is this only because of the difference in oil-qality, or is it because you still can tell most americans that they will have to change their oil at 3000miles?
I guess the oil is not the problem, but Subaru, who wants to earn some easy money.
Besides, if their engines aren't more capable than this, you should buy a Lada from Russia, instead.

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Interesting. For which model Subaru is the 15000km OCI specified? Turbo motor or non-turbo? What is the recommended viscosity?

 

[Titan]

I go 7500 miles between changes on my two Subaru. When out of warranty, I'll go longer, because the used oil analysis are so good. Mine are not turbos.

 

[bluesubie]

Can't believe I missed this one! So what are bitoger's with turbo Subaru's going to do in the future about these shorter OCI's?

If I bought a 2008 turbo (and some are saying this is retroactive), I don't think I would follow it and I'm very anal about keeping my powertrain warranty valid.

IMO, the problems come from people not using the proper oil for their conditions. There are highly modified STI's running 5W30 energy conserving oil in 100F temps.

I don't think the manual is contradictory. It states the 5W30 is preferred for fuel economy and that a higher viscosity is required in severe conditions and hot temps. No problems in Europe because they don't use wimpy oils.

-Dennis

 

[bar1]

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Interesting. For which model Subaru is the 15000km OCI specified? Turbo motor or non-turbo? What is the recommended viscosity?

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For the turbo and non-turbo engines it's 15000 km or max 1 year, viscosity is 5w30.
A car with less than 15000 km OCI would be difficult to sell in Europe.

 

[BennyL]

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For the turbo and non-turbo engines it's 15000 km or max 1 year, viscosity is 5w30.
A car with less than 15000 km OCI would be difficult to sell in Europe.

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wow, thats interesting news to me. what is the reason for this? i would love to know. is it because oil in europe is THAT much better, or because we are so ignorant over here in north america that we can't get out of the 3000 mile oil change frame of mind?

out of curiosity, what kinds of oil do you have over there in norway? and when you go for these 15000 or 30000 km oil change intervals, do you change the filter at any point, or leave that for the same amount of time also?

 

[bluesubie]

Benny - A good number of European oils are thicker than N. American oils of the same grade. I don't think they have Energy Conserving requirements either.

A good way to compare is check product data sheets on the N.American and Euro web sites (e.g. mobil1.com and mobil.co.uk?).

-Dennis

 

[bluesubie]

Check out this Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 pdf.
12.1 cst's and ACEA A3, so yes, we're ignorant.

 

[yannis]

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wow, thats interesting news to me. what is the reason for this?

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Fuel quality is better.

 

[bar1]

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..
out of curiosity, what kinds of oil do you have over there in norway? and when you go for these 15000 or 30000 km oil change intervals, do you change the filter at any point, or leave that for the same amount of time also?

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Popular brands are Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil 1/Esso, Shell, Agip, Fuchs, Statoil, Havoline (HydroTexaco), Motul, BP..
No extra oil filter. 30 000 km is only possible on vehicles with OLM and with easy driving conditions (only highway). My GM Opel went 16000 km before OLM told me "it's enough". That was 30/70 city/highway..

As others have said reasons are fuels are better, some oils are more robust, oil/service is expensive..

Personally I don't let my cars have very long OCIs. Since I usually keep my cars at least 10 years (300 000 km) I never let it go more than 10 000 km between changes.

 

[TeeDub]

I think it's interesting that Subaru is now recommending 50% shorter OCI's for their turbo motors, rather than simply upgrading their oil recommendations and specing a full synthetic meeting the latest ACEA requirements. I have friends locally running 10,000 mile OCI's with Amsoil in the WRX turbo motors and it holds up just fine. In fact I posted just such an analysis last month....

I see NO reason for 3750 OCI's in the turbo motors unless you are running some cheap conventional oil that barely meets minimum requirements. Of course manufacturers have to make their recommendations on the possibility that some of their customers will do just that....

TS

 

[Ed_T]

Subaru has been replacing lots of turbos and engines due to poor oil performance. Hence the new frequent OC requirement. FHI was poo-poo'ing synthetics, but have recently changed their tune.

There is an ongoing issue with (IIRC) banjo valve screens clogging and starving the turbo's oil supply. Some owners have taken to removing the screens altogether.

 

[M1Accord]

Mr. Hasan may not know anything about running turbo in North American condition. Actually, a lot of place in Asia, Africa, and Middle East still run very low grade oil surplus. When I stationed in Philippine, the police and military vehicles used conventional oil of average quality and have 15 to 20k OCI on the same filter. The reason was it was, and probably still is, a lot cheaper to have some low pay mechanic open up the engine and hand clean the internal with detergent and put it back every 50k miles than to change to the oil every 3k miles as recommended for severe stop and go.