capable of launching nukes, two nuclear submarines and an aircraft carrier.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/435662.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/435662.cms
India to get new bombers
- Thread starter Shannow
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And they can't even feed a large chunk of their own people.
Uh-oh, I guess we'd better invade them, just in case....
Dangerous situation over there between India and Pakistan. These two countries have nearly gone to war several times and they both have nuclear weapons. But the situation at least for now seems to be getting better; recently air travel between the two countries started up again for the first time in a while.
Hopefully there will be sane people manning the controls.
Hopefully there will be sane people manning the controls.
Actually, they have gone to war on several occasions.
Pakistan is a bit unstable as they have a large number of the religious zealots. These zealots dislike Musharof (sp?) for cooperating with the US and are trying to assisinate him. If they succeed, then the zealots could get control of the nukes. Very scary!
Also, the US had applied sanctions against both countries years ago in retaliation for them creating nukes. To get Paksistan to assist with Afganastan, the US lifted the sanctions on Pakistan, and now India is really pissed at the US.
What a mess!
[ January 21, 2004, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: DockHoliday ]
India is like Israel Shannon.
And India has a right to defend itself.
To the East lies an ocean of radical muslims intent on the destruction of anything un-muslim.
To the North East lies a rising China...that already invaded Tibet and a chunk of India illegally and without provocation.
The Pakistanis have Nukes and so do the Chinese.
Your insenstive to the real security needs of India.
India is not run or held hostage by muslim fanatics. It population is not radical and does not hate the west.
Nor is it run by those duplicitious Chinese communists up north.
The real threat to the security of the world is militant Islam and a rising China.
Pakistan created the Taliban, in cohoots with Saudi Arabia it actively shelters at least 10 state department reckonized terrorist outfits. It was created in bloody genocide as it purged every non-muslim during the partition.
Your grossly mistaken citing India as a threat. We need to encourage more nations to westernize and continue there secular politics.
If anything the Indian military is necessary to keep the Indian Ocean clean of any Chinese military expansion...checkmate the muslim fanatics of Pakistan and the middle east and contain China proper.
India and Austrailia both of common security interests in a common region.
Please re-examine your insensitive assessment.
And India has a right to defend itself.
To the East lies an ocean of radical muslims intent on the destruction of anything un-muslim.
To the North East lies a rising China...that already invaded Tibet and a chunk of India illegally and without provocation.
The Pakistanis have Nukes and so do the Chinese.
Your insenstive to the real security needs of India.
India is not run or held hostage by muslim fanatics. It population is not radical and does not hate the west.
Nor is it run by those duplicitious Chinese communists up north.
The real threat to the security of the world is militant Islam and a rising China.
Pakistan created the Taliban, in cohoots with Saudi Arabia it actively shelters at least 10 state department reckonized terrorist outfits. It was created in bloody genocide as it purged every non-muslim during the partition.
Your grossly mistaken citing India as a threat. We need to encourage more nations to westernize and continue there secular politics.
If anything the Indian military is necessary to keep the Indian Ocean clean of any Chinese military expansion...checkmate the muslim fanatics of Pakistan and the middle east and contain China proper.
India and Austrailia both of common security interests in a common region.
Please re-examine your insensitive assessment.
The initial post sounded too "alarmist" to me.
That is how i coded the intention of the poster.
That is how i coded the intention of the poster.
Never suggested that India is a threat to anyone.
My distress is at the continuation of an arms race in the region.
(and you seem to be able to read an awful lot into a couple of words to label my initial post as insensitive).
[ January 22, 2004, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: Shannow ]
My distress is at the continuation of an arms race in the region.
(and you seem to be able to read an awful lot into a couple of words to label my initial post as insensitive).
[ January 22, 2004, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: Shannow ]
I agree with outrun that India is no threat to anyone, and his assessment of its security situation.
Which is why I disagree with his statement "India is like Israel".
India has not displaced native peoples and is a legitimate country.
Israel on the other hand is the root cause of the mideast problems.
jews have lived peacable and in safety in many mid eastern countries for centuries, they would have been just as safe under palestinian majority rule 1948.
What would the world have said, if South Africa had suddenly expelled all blacks from the choicest areas of the country and barred them from returning?
Even the apartheid area homeland system (the closest thing) was benign, compared to Israels' dozing over of peoples houses and livelyhoods and commiting ethnic cleansing.
Fred...
[ January 22, 2004, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: palmerwmd ]
Which is why I disagree with his statement "India is like Israel".
India has not displaced native peoples and is a legitimate country.
Israel on the other hand is the root cause of the mideast problems.
jews have lived peacable and in safety in many mid eastern countries for centuries, they would have been just as safe under palestinian majority rule 1948.
What would the world have said, if South Africa had suddenly expelled all blacks from the choicest areas of the country and barred them from returning?
Even the apartheid area homeland system (the closest thing) was benign, compared to Israels' dozing over of peoples houses and livelyhoods and commiting ethnic cleansing.
Fred...
[ January 22, 2004, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: palmerwmd ]
"To the East lies an ocean of radical muslims intent on the destruction of anything un-muslim."
Actually, to the east of India, lies the Bay of Bengal, then the nations of Bangladesh, Myanmar(Burma), and Thailand.
I believe you meant to say 'to the west'.
Of course, to the southeast is Indonesia, home of a very large Muslim population, but I didn't know they were threatening India.
And I don't think bombers qualify as defensive weapons.
[ January 22, 2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: MarkC ]
Actually, to the east of India, lies the Bay of Bengal, then the nations of Bangladesh, Myanmar(Burma), and Thailand.
I believe you meant to say 'to the west'.
Of course, to the southeast is Indonesia, home of a very large Muslim population, but I didn't know they were threatening India.
And I don't think bombers qualify as defensive weapons.
[ January 22, 2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: MarkC ]
Best defense is a strong offense. I doubt Japan would have declared war on the US if they thought the mainland Japan could have been bombed.
The problems between Pakistan and India revolve mostly around the Kashmir region. The majority of persons in Kashmir are Muslim, and the zealots think that because of this, Kashmir should be part of Pakistan.
However, the real root cause of the instability in Paksitan,India, Isreal, Palastine, Iraq, Iran, Afganastan, etc. are changes made by the Western world. Govts, borders, etc.. These areas were stable 100 years ago.
[ January 22, 2004, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: DockHoliday ]
"And I don't think bombers qualify as defensive weapons."
Objectively you are right.
off topic notes:
However, as you propably know just a hop skip and jump away from India lies the USAF strip at Diego Garcia Island.
A nice squadron of potent B52's is staitoned there, with visiting B1s, F117s, B2s and whatever secret aircraft we have in our arsenal stopping by.
Diego Garcia gives us an awesome reach into Asia power projection wise.
So, if India gets a couple Tu-23 backfire bombers kudos to them.
A) It will give the IAF survivability and deep penetration capability against the Chinese. Unlike Taiwan India has the missile and bomber detterent to "middle finger" back the Chinese missiles pointed at her from Tibet. The motive of the aircraft is more likely against the Chinese the Pakistanis.
B) Tu23 will enable the IAF to mobilize the Brahmos supersonic missile deep into the Indian ocean to safeguard against nosy Chinese Crusiers and what not.
The other calculus is Pakistans Block A F16s that we sold them. Anyone knows that would make a good nuke platform. Up until the IAF got the Russian Su30MKI's not much of a match existed.
The other point is the roots of the conflict are more than just Kashmir. As another poster mentioned, it boils down to the British basically.
Historically, the United States(13 colonies) or the middle east (palestine-israel), Ireland-N.Ireland, S.Africa, India-Pakistan the brits went in colonized then tried to divide and conquer them. In America's thanks to Washington and his men the Brits failed to cut us up successfully.
In the other cases the Brits messed everything up. The brits got the pakistanis thinking that all muslims need there own country and hence they did and partioned India.
A blood bathe ensued. The biggest exodus in history happened strictly on religious-political lines. That is where it started, people rightly reject this religious claim...more-ever they reject the legitimacy of the Pakistani state.
And many of those have a good case...there lands were confiscated and they left at the clear present threat that if they did not convert to Islam they would be excuted at there doorstep.
Kashmir is only part of the calculus.
Objectively you are right.
off topic notes:
However, as you propably know just a hop skip and jump away from India lies the USAF strip at Diego Garcia Island.
A nice squadron of potent B52's is staitoned there, with visiting B1s, F117s, B2s and whatever secret aircraft we have in our arsenal stopping by.
Diego Garcia gives us an awesome reach into Asia power projection wise.
So, if India gets a couple Tu-23 backfire bombers kudos to them.
A) It will give the IAF survivability and deep penetration capability against the Chinese. Unlike Taiwan India has the missile and bomber detterent to "middle finger" back the Chinese missiles pointed at her from Tibet. The motive of the aircraft is more likely against the Chinese the Pakistanis.
B) Tu23 will enable the IAF to mobilize the Brahmos supersonic missile deep into the Indian ocean to safeguard against nosy Chinese Crusiers and what not.
The other calculus is Pakistans Block A F16s that we sold them. Anyone knows that would make a good nuke platform. Up until the IAF got the Russian Su30MKI's not much of a match existed.
The other point is the roots of the conflict are more than just Kashmir. As another poster mentioned, it boils down to the British basically.
Historically, the United States(13 colonies) or the middle east (palestine-israel), Ireland-N.Ireland, S.Africa, India-Pakistan the brits went in colonized then tried to divide and conquer them. In America's thanks to Washington and his men the Brits failed to cut us up successfully.
In the other cases the Brits messed everything up. The brits got the pakistanis thinking that all muslims need there own country and hence they did and partioned India.
A blood bathe ensued. The biggest exodus in history happened strictly on religious-political lines. That is where it started, people rightly reject this religious claim...more-ever they reject the legitimacy of the Pakistani state.
And many of those have a good case...there lands were confiscated and they left at the clear present threat that if they did not convert to Islam they would be excuted at there doorstep.
Kashmir is only part of the calculus.
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