Impurities in Conventional Oil

[Merkava_4]

Quote:
To understand the benefits of synthetic oil you first have to learn how it differs from dinosaur juice. Conventional lubricants are made from crude oil. It’s extracted from the ground and then extensively refined to remove impurities. After that it gets blended with other chemicals before landing on the shelf of your local auto-parts store. But according to Jared Martin, National Automotive Retail Accounts Manager for Royal Purple Ltd., no matter what you do, “conventional oils have a level of insolubles – paraffin, waxes, silicon, dirt – natural contaminants.” Under certain conditions these substances can form deposits inside an engine.


Link To Article

Seems kinda scary there'd be paraffin, waxes, silicon, dirt, and other natural contaminants in new oil; what you guys say about that?

 

[UNC017]

Meh. Nothing is absolutely pure, and yeah I can see trace impurities surviving the refining process. But are we talking about enough impurities to matter? Are we talking about any more impurities than what get into "fully synthetic" oil (insert your most stringent definition of synthetic here) during storage, blending, and packaging?

I doubt it matters much.

 

[901Memphis]

I think no matter what anyone says about anything, we won't have any influence on anything you already believe firmly to be true and correct.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I can see trace impurities surviving the refining process. But are we talking about enough impurities to matter?


That's what I'm wondering about; you tell me........

 

[KrisZ]

Petro Canada says that their Purity Base oils are 99.99% pure for Group II and II+ Oils.

So much for "dinosaur impurities"

http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/310.aspx

 

[msmoke00]

Quote:
It’s probably hard to buy a bad lubricant these days. Even the most basic conventional oils available on the market are far better than ones offered just a few decades ago.


First paragraph of the last section. Answers it pretty clearly to me. If we are going to worry about a level of contaminants in oil that has not caused any measurable differences, we might as well judge the cleanliness of the bottles and the dust that is probably in them...

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I can see trace impurities surviving the refining process. But are we talking about enough impurities to matter?


That's what I'm wondering about; you tell me........


My OPINION: No, it doesn't matter. Oxidation resistance, VI, NOACK, etc. are all more valid arguments in favor of synthetic than "leftoever impurities."

 

[EA82]

Account Manager for Royal Purple said that, Sounds like the window salesman that wasted 5 hours with his presentation on a Saturday trying to sell me his product and talking [censored] about every other window company in town. WE already know what conventional and synthetic oils are capable of, we've read used oil analysis and seen pictures of engines. Engines have survived on conventional oil for decades, if you want to extend your OCI go synthetic.

 

[maximus]

There's going to be impurities in everything, especially a bottle of oil from a retail store. Who cares?


How many of you pay close attention to what chemicals go into your body when you eat processed food? Isn't that far more important than an engine in some car you might keep for 15 years ?

Happy motoring

 

[fdcg27]

Okay, based upon everything we've seen both here and in our own experience, this theory seems pretty half-baked.
We do have VOAs here of conventional and the insoluables levels are typically low enough that they measure as zero.
PQIA has a huge number of VOAs of conventionals and while they don't give an aggregate insoluables figure, they do provide contaminants levels, which are typically very low as well.
If Grp II basestocks were really loaded with contaminants, would they appear to be water-white, as they do?
This could't be marketing on RP's part, could it?
I mean, after all, the guy you quoted is a marketing guy, not a chemist or an engineer.
Are there impurities in finished oils?
Sure, but many probably come from the plumbing and containers used to transport them to the bottling plant, where the bottling line and the bottles themselves will introduce additonal impurities, none of which will be at levels significant enough to matter.

 

[gregoron]

Hundreds of thousands of cars out there with hundreds of thousands of miles in conventional oil. What impurities?

 

[Merkava_4]

Mobil 1 says conventional oils are loaded up with impurities too:

Quote:
What are Synthetic Oils?
A synthetic lubricant contains more highly refined base oils than those used in conventional mineral oils, offering you superior protection and performance. Synthetic engine oils provide a variety of benefits that keep your engine running at optimal performance for years.

Types of Engine Oil
There are two basic types of engine oil available:

Conventional mineral oils are the traditional types of engine oil and are still most widely used.
Synthetic lubricants which are steadily growing in popularity.

(There are also semi synthetic oils, which are a blend of synthetic oils and conventional mineral oils. Semi synthetic oils are also sometimes called "blends".)

Both types of engine oil are made from crude oil that comes from the ground. The difference is that synthetic oils are made from more advanced refining processes and are of a higher purity and quality than conventional mineral oils. The advanced refining of synthetic oils removes more impurities from the oil and enables individual molecules to be tailored to the demands of modern engines. These customized molecules provide higher levels of protection and performance, even in extreme conditions.


Mobil 1 Link

 

[Dallas69]

Thats why we use FILTERS

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: gregoron
Hundreds of thousands of cars out there with hundreds of thousands of miles in conventional oil. What impurities?


+1

Millions of cars with trillions of miles is more like it!

 

[fdcg27]

Maybe I need some remedial education, since that isn't what I got out of the quote that you've posted.
This M1 marketing piece claims that synthetics have fewer impurities, not that conventionals are loaded with them.
This seems like common sense, since if you hydrocrack a Grp II basestock some more to get a GRP III, it probably is a cleaner basestock. I'm sure that you're aware that the distnction between the two basestocks is based only upon a minmum VI to be considered a Grp III, AKA synthetic, basetock.
Whether the difference is enough to matter is something else again.
Based upon the fact that the vast majority of engines out there are running conventional oil and the vast majority of them will reach 200K still running well, I'd say not.
If I were in the business of promoting more expensive, higher margin products, I'd probably play it up.

 

[Oil Changer]

You're so confused. Beating the conventional oil drum yet your own signature line lists top-shelf synthetic oils and filters INCLUDING a magnet to capture (I assume) more impurities.

Things that make you go, hhhmmmmmm...


Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: gregoron
Hundreds of thousands of cars out there with hundreds of thousands of miles in conventional oil. What impurities?


+1

Millions of cars with trillions of miles is more like it!

 

[fdcg27]

I'm confused.
The Focus will be getting an oil change in the next month or so.
I can't decide whether to use Durablend, Synpower, Nextgen or Maxlife. I have some of each in the stash.
It will get one of the four.
One man's meat is another man's poison.

 

[PandaBear]

As soon as you start your engine the crank case is breathing, and you'll get more impurity from that as well as the blow by that makes this argument moot.

Now if you talk about the quality difference between the base oil, that's a different argument.

 

[widman]

Yes, there are impurities, but not enough in the majority of oils to worry about. Most of these (other than the molecular ones) are contaminants from pipes, drums, tanks, open blending, etc.

Motor oil is not as critical as hydraulic oil. The standard is 18/16/13 on the ISO 4406:99 standard. That means 1 ml of oil can have 1300 to 2500 particles over 4 microns; of which 320 to 640 are over 6 um, and 40 to 40 are over 14 um. So 1 quart can have 946 times this and it is still considered "Clean".

And yes, occasionally I find oil dirtier than this.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I'm confused.
The Focus will be getting an oil change in the next month or so.
I can't decide whether to use Durablend, Synpower, Nextgen or Maxlife. I have some of each in the stash.
It will get one of the four.
One man's meat is another man's poison.


Just use one quart of each. Then for your top off place all 4 of the used quarts bottle cap's into a bag. Shake the bag have your significant other hold the bag high. Close your eyes and pick a winner. That Valvoline product will be your top off.