I would not take advice from that particular set of people.
I'm going to dump the M1 T&SUV for a "thinner" 40 weight.
- Thread starter V8Blitz
- Start date
- Status
Why is this? I thought the Motul 8100 0W40 and Esso XD-3 0W40 were both very sheer-stable oil with high HTHS numbers. Am I missing another important aspect of oil ratings?
Just to add that I've used every popular 15w-40 HDEO inc Supertech and I have Valvoline SuperBlue "in the shed". I don't feel that synthetic 5w-40 T&S is at all sluggish, only one 15w-40 can I say that about, Delvac 1300S. I was worried about "bogging", going with my 1st 40 weight oil in quite some time, no problems. It did feel a tad thick at first, but it "normalized". Right now, I'd refill it with the exact same stuff...but I'm going full-length oci (4 months). For Fall, I am dippping into my Supersyn stash and probally doing a 4:3 mix of 0w-40 and 0w-30. Back to GC this winter, I believe.
[ May 24, 2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
[ May 24, 2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
V8Blitz, My late grandfather would say you have more money then brains!!! Lets look at this for a moment. You are running an oil that has the right charteristics for the engine based on white papers. The oil is proven to protect well in most applications. It has been used by other Audi owners with good results. You have no quantifiable data. The oil is causeing no harm to the engine in any way.It cost $20 per 5 qts. or $4.88 per qt. and you want to drain it out due to butt-dyno results?
Even if you new exhaust system builds better peak HP and better peak tq. I doubt it builds better low end tq.! A free'er flowing exhaust seldom helps low end torque! It is a very common complaint after adding header's and big bore low restriction exhaust that low end torque is down! This was also rather common with so called "cold air kits"! A lot of computer systems have to relearn their optimum fuel and timeing settings for a vechile after the batery has been disconected. Most use fuzzy logic that is voltile and needs about 50 driveng cycles to relearn. THe same is true for adaptive shift patterns. I am sure if it was a good shop they disconected the battery to make sure they did not short anyting out!
Even if you new exhaust system builds better peak HP and better peak tq. I doubt it builds better low end tq.! A free'er flowing exhaust seldom helps low end torque! It is a very common complaint after adding header's and big bore low restriction exhaust that low end torque is down! This was also rather common with so called "cold air kits"! A lot of computer systems have to relearn their optimum fuel and timeing settings for a vechile after the batery has been disconected. Most use fuzzy logic that is voltile and needs about 50 driveng cycles to relearn. THe same is true for adaptive shift patterns. I am sure if it was a good shop they disconected the battery to make sure they did not short anyting out!
In speaking to the service mngr. , we feel that they underfilled the car by 1/2 qt. So I had to top it off and start over, hence the change to the T&SUV. I would have brought it back and they would have told me everything was fine. Then when the problem really did arise they would have dismissed it. So they documented that the 300 miles are not counted and to take the test from starting after that.quote:
Originally posted by pastmaster:
V8Blitz,
How did the oil use test with the Agip Oil, through your dealer go? What determination? Do you have an "oil burner"?
I think the GC O-30, was the ideal oil, but does it meet Audi's warranty requirements?
I think you should give the Mobil 1 T&SUV, a chance, at least 1000 miles, and see what happens at least as mileage and use goes. Will the Mobil 5-40 meet Audi's warranty requirements? Then you're all set!
Hi,
Tooslick - Ted you said this (again);
"Any 0w-40 will shear like crazy in that engine ....you are better off going for a shear stable xw-30 like Redline, Amsoil, etc...."
Poor Ted he seems to have ahang up on 0w-40 oils!
I have just reviewed the latest Porsche Approved oil List covering all their engine families and 99% are 0w-40 oils (synthetics of course)!!
Sad for Ted though Porsche factory fill with a 0w-40 (M1)and also recommend these oils for up to 30k kms (18k miles) OCIs even in their high performance engines. And of course on the twin turbo Cayenne V8 (up to 600hp) too
Sadly though no Amsoil, Redline or RP oils are Approved or Listed amongst the sixty or so lubricants................!
Ted do you need therapy?
They tell me a mix of fact, reality and some Ozzie Shiraz helps! Go Ted Go!!!
Regards
Doug
Tooslick - Ted you said this (again);
"Any 0w-40 will shear like crazy in that engine ....you are better off going for a shear stable xw-30 like Redline, Amsoil, etc...."
Poor Ted he seems to have ahang up on 0w-40 oils!
I have just reviewed the latest Porsche Approved oil List covering all their engine families and 99% are 0w-40 oils (synthetics of course)!!
Sad for Ted though Porsche factory fill with a 0w-40 (M1)and also recommend these oils for up to 30k kms (18k miles) OCIs even in their high performance engines. And of course on the twin turbo Cayenne V8 (up to 600hp) too
Sadly though no Amsoil, Redline or RP oils are Approved or Listed amongst the sixty or so lubricants................!
Ted do you need therapy?
They tell me a mix of fact, reality and some Ozzie Shiraz helps! Go Ted Go!!!
Regards
Doug
They did even better; they VAG'd it. It was scanned after the install and it had no codes thrown. The battery was not disconnected because the OBD on this car is such that it learns your driving dtyle evry 3500 miles. You can do a throttle reset if need be.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
V8blitz, after any engine modification you are well-advised to reset the ECU. That has nothing to do with clearing codes. And yes, having a VAG-COM (I do) is nice and useful, but to reset your ECU (and to clear soft codes), you simply have to disconnect the battery for 30 minutes (pump the brakes a couple times, too). ;-)
Doug,
I like the shear stable 5w-40/10w-40/15w-40 oils just fine - I particularly like your favorite Delvac 1. I have NO use for ANY 0w-40 formulation (even Amsoils') for the simple reason that I've never seen one that's even remotely shear stable.
If you can show me an SAE 0w-40 that won't shear in my Audi TT turbo, or any high rpm, multivalve engine like a BMW, I'll change my tune. By you know as well as I do that no such oil exists. Given current base stock and additive technology it's not possible to make a shear stable 0w-40.
BTW,I'm less and less impressed by "German Engineering" every time I drive an Acura or Lexus or have to take my Audi TT into the shop once again, to hunt for electrical gremlins.
Ted
I like the shear stable 5w-40/10w-40/15w-40 oils just fine - I particularly like your favorite Delvac 1. I have NO use for ANY 0w-40 formulation (even Amsoils') for the simple reason that I've never seen one that's even remotely shear stable.
If you can show me an SAE 0w-40 that won't shear in my Audi TT turbo, or any high rpm, multivalve engine like a BMW, I'll change my tune. By you know as well as I do that no such oil exists. Given current base stock and additive technology it's not possible to make a shear stable 0w-40.
BTW,I'm less and less impressed by "German Engineering" every time I drive an Acura or Lexus or have to take my Audi TT into the shop once again, to hunt for electrical gremlins.
Ted
While I am not arguing w/ you, I do wonder why Porsche and Mercedes and Audi for that matter all approve 0W-40 weight oils. They even name the Motul specifically.quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Doug,
I like the shear stable 5w-40/10w-40/15w-40 oils just fine - I particularly like your favorite Delvac 1. I have NO use for ANY 0w-40 formulation (even Amsoils') for the simple reason that I've never seen one that's even remotely shear stable.
If you can show me an SAE 0w-40 that won't shear in my Audi TT turbo, or any high rpm, multivalve engine like a BMW, I'll change my tune. By you know as well as I do that no such oil exists. Given current base stock and additive technology it's not possible to make a shear stable 0w-40.
BTW,I'm less and less impressed by "German Engineering" every time I drive an Acura or Lexus or have to take my Audi TT into the shop once again, to hunt for electrical gremlins.
Ted
Really? I've heard about this but I thought it was more urban myth than factual. I am interested and will try this. What exactly is the pumping the brakes part? What do you do? Can you tell me how it's done? I've also heard of a throttle reset that has you turn the key to right before the engine turns over and then to put the pedal to the metal for about 10 seconds. I've tried this and can't honestly say I've felt anything different. It's supposed to be good to do every few thousand miles or so.
Has Doug Hillary been coaching you ?
(only teasing Doug & Ted !)
Hi,
Tooslick - Ted, what does some slight reduction is viscosity below the prescribed limits matter?
After all the ACEA test protocols allow for it Ted and where are the millions of engines using M1 0w-40 that are blown up or prematurely worn out due to THINNING? I keep looking Ted but I don't see any from Porsche or Benz or AMG or.......!
Oh - and BMWs survive very well on 5w-30 synthetics - why would a slightly sheared 0w-40 M1 matter??
The German Auto makers who ONLY endorse 0w-40 synthetics (their Approved Lists contain many brands) do their own testing - and have teir own extended performance protocols concerning viscosity retention) at levels way beyond most people's comprehension. They obviously find the characteristics MOST suitable for their purposes
Could it be Ted that you should TRY M1 0w-40 and live with the Manuafcturer's recommendations?
But you know that I use Delvac 1 5w-40 Ted and that I'll probably stick with M1 0w-40 in my Benz as it does the job so well. It is a tad rattlely at startup though - just like the BMW and Subaru was
And yes computerisation has allowed design and buid quality that makes the very best hard to remain at the top! I have seen the rise and decline in German car standards over nearly 50 years - it is cyclic
Now if only GM and Ford in the US could play catch up to the Japanese and Koreans. Or even the Czechs and French..............
Regards
Doug
Tooslick - Ted, what does some slight reduction is viscosity below the prescribed limits matter?
After all the ACEA test protocols allow for it Ted and where are the millions of engines using M1 0w-40 that are blown up or prematurely worn out due to THINNING? I keep looking Ted but I don't see any from Porsche or Benz or AMG or.......!
Oh - and BMWs survive very well on 5w-30 synthetics - why would a slightly sheared 0w-40 M1 matter??
The German Auto makers who ONLY endorse 0w-40 synthetics (their Approved Lists contain many brands) do their own testing - and have teir own extended performance protocols concerning viscosity retention) at levels way beyond most people's comprehension. They obviously find the characteristics MOST suitable for their purposes
Could it be Ted that you should TRY M1 0w-40 and live with the Manuafcturer's recommendations?
But you know that I use Delvac 1 5w-40 Ted and that I'll probably stick with M1 0w-40 in my Benz as it does the job so well. It is a tad rattlely at startup though - just like the BMW and Subaru was
And yes computerisation has allowed design and buid quality that makes the very best hard to remain at the top! I have seen the rise and decline in German car standards over nearly 50 years - it is cyclic
Now if only GM and Ford in the US could play catch up to the Japanese and Koreans. Or even the Czechs and French..............
Regards
Doug
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
Pressing the brake pedal will remove residual power.
The procedure you describe is a "throttle body adaption" (of a motorized throttle body), which calibrates the setting of the butterfly valves in the throttle body. If you have a VAG-COM, you can read the exact angle of the butterfly valves. A throttle body adaption is NOT an ECU reboot.
I really like my Audi because its components are fairly simple. Mine doesn't even have a motorized, fly-by-wire throttle body. The next thing coming are VW and Audi cars with fly-by-wire steering and brakes. KISS, Audi, KISS!
We understand why the Japanese, I personally drive a Kia, we can accept anything from the wonderful Czechs, but the French!!!! The sleazy French!! That's hitting below the belt, Aussie!
(OK, maybe in Tires and Hotels...some foods).
V8Blitz,
If you want to know why 0w-40s are popular in Europe, call me any evening @ (256) 882-0768 and I'll give you the 15 minute explanation....
Basically the idea is to keep the HT/HS viscosity of the oil as close to 3.5 Cp as possible over the course of a 15,000-25,000 change interval. The only way to do this CHEAPLY is to start with a HT/HS of approx 3.5 Cp; have the oil shear down by 10%-15% and then slowly thicken back up due to oxidation and evaporation.
Mobil 1, 0w-40 accomplishes this little chemistry trick (and that's all it is) very nicely.
My preference is to use a shear stable 5w-30/10w-30, that meets the ACEA A3/B4 spec and is also highly resistant to oxidative thickening. The Redline 10w-30 and the Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30 are two such oils. Of course this is a significantly more expensive approach, but it will yield lower valve train and ring/cylinder wear and much less oil consumption.
The oil consumption of even fairly new, water cooled, Porsche 911 engines using the Mobil 1, 0w-40 is just terrible, and should not be tolerate in an $80k vehicle.
Tooslick
If you want to know why 0w-40s are popular in Europe, call me any evening @ (256) 882-0768 and I'll give you the 15 minute explanation....
Basically the idea is to keep the HT/HS viscosity of the oil as close to 3.5 Cp as possible over the course of a 15,000-25,000 change interval. The only way to do this CHEAPLY is to start with a HT/HS of approx 3.5 Cp; have the oil shear down by 10%-15% and then slowly thicken back up due to oxidation and evaporation.
Mobil 1, 0w-40 accomplishes this little chemistry trick (and that's all it is) very nicely.
My preference is to use a shear stable 5w-30/10w-30, that meets the ACEA A3/B4 spec and is also highly resistant to oxidative thickening. The Redline 10w-30 and the Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30 are two such oils. Of course this is a significantly more expensive approach, but it will yield lower valve train and ring/cylinder wear and much less oil consumption.
The oil consumption of even fairly new, water cooled, Porsche 911 engines using the Mobil 1, 0w-40 is just terrible, and should not be tolerate in an $80k vehicle.
Tooslick
The VW factory representative in Vancouver Canada told me the other day that oil burning in new water cooled motors was perfectly normal as long as it did not get worse than 1 litre per 1000 kilometers.
I then asked him who would pay to have my cylinders de carbonized and my catalytic converter replaced in five years time.
He then told me not to worry about those sorts of things.
As far as I am concerned,these manufacturers are doing as all a disservice. To save a few MPG, they are giving us low tension piston rings, a ring pack so high up on the piston that heat becomes a major problem ( gum, varnish ) and now BMW with multiple oil pumps, some electric.
IMHO this is all getting way out of hand.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked