2wd = Chevy HHR, psuedo truck
4wd = Ford Escape hybrid
Big & Bad = Tahoe/Suburban
4wd = Ford Escape hybrid
Big & Bad = Tahoe/Suburban
If you had to buy an SUV
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JHZR2
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The HHR is a pt cruiser equivalent, isnt it? i.e. its a car, with FWD, with a more utilitarian body on it? Its not RWD is it?
The escape 2wd is a FWD vehicle, right?
I think a good option which has not really been considered/mentioned is a MT subaru wagon/forrester, etc.
Good economy, conventionally mounted engine, AWD.
The legacy wagon has been a well thought of car by all of my colleagues who have owned them (3 people). All lasted over 120k miles, and are still running. I think the oldest has 138k.
JMH
The escape 2wd is a FWD vehicle, right?
I think a good option which has not really been considered/mentioned is a MT subaru wagon/forrester, etc.
Good economy, conventionally mounted engine, AWD.
The legacy wagon has been a well thought of car by all of my colleagues who have owned them (3 people). All lasted over 120k miles, and are still running. I think the oldest has 138k.
JMH
Yes, it is, it handles pretty well and has an independent rear suspension..perfect SUV if you just need to haul kids around, which is what my brother uses his for...
I like my '72 Scout for an SUV, and I would take an Excursion with a Powerstroke!
If you want to do rock crawling or want to build some sort of mud buggy then a 3/4 or 1 ton truck isn't the best choice, otherwise they seem to do fine. Tire choice is critical in some applications, so budget for that if you're considering one. I'm very pleased with my 3/4 ton Dodge, it's a 4wd quad cab short bed with a canopy, and the diesel allows 17 to 18 mpg in town, 19 to 20 mpg on the highway. If I lived in a flat area and drove slower I could do a bit better. The autos seem to get about the same mileage, they're geared slightly higher, and if you're stuck on an auto and prefer a more car like ride the GM might be a better choice. If you're stuck on Ford get one one those too, they seem to do well, but they have had teething problems.
I paid a lot less than $30k for a loss leader, which is what I wanted. A coworker got the same truck but fully optioned out with an auto, and paid over $40k.
I paid a lot less than $30k for a loss leader, which is what I wanted. A coworker got the same truck but fully optioned out with an auto, and paid over $40k.
That's more from people not knowing how to drive than from the vehicle being unsafe. Mine has never come close to flipping, slipping, rolling over or anything else.
Wonder if they didn't feel safe in their previous non-SUV vehicle because they didn't know how to drive?
I realize that "used" has strong meaning.
Nonetheless, were I to buy another SUV (or pretty much any other car) it would be equipped with full-time AWD, stability control and traction control.
The safety record of SUVs is poor and will remain so. Center of gravity is simply too high. The death and serious injury rate for them is about DOUBLE that of a large sedan.
Used? A Subaru would get a hard look from me. As would a 2003 or later Crown Vic.
Truck-frame based isn't the end-all, be-all of reliability or for 90% of driving. Remember, that JEEP is uni-body. And we used to tow 7-8,000 lb trailers with the big late 60's thru late 70's Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth unibody sedans (about 1000-2000 lbs more than rated until final versions).
I'd cast a pretty wide net before I set all the parameters.
Good luck.
Nonetheless, were I to buy another SUV (or pretty much any other car) it would be equipped with full-time AWD, stability control and traction control.
The safety record of SUVs is poor and will remain so. Center of gravity is simply too high. The death and serious injury rate for them is about DOUBLE that of a large sedan.
Used? A Subaru would get a hard look from me. As would a 2003 or later Crown Vic.
Truck-frame based isn't the end-all, be-all of reliability or for 90% of driving. Remember, that JEEP is uni-body. And we used to tow 7-8,000 lb trailers with the big late 60's thru late 70's Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth unibody sedans (about 1000-2000 lbs more than rated until final versions).
I'd cast a pretty wide net before I set all the parameters.
Good luck.
Well, OP did say "truck-based, rugged looking." And that's what a lot of people mistakenly associate with 'safety': sitting tall, large size, all terrain capability, etc. They ignore the high center of gravity, poor braking performance, and poor light truck crash standards (as opposed to stricter car standards).
I remember when the Liberty came out, CR got theirs up on two wheels during their emergency lane change, and Autoweek plain flipped theirs over on level pavement. I'm pretty sure they 'knew' how to drive. I can't remember what Jeep did, but I think part of the fix involved a lower ride height.
I remember when the Liberty came out, CR got theirs up on two wheels during their emergency lane change, and Autoweek plain flipped theirs over on level pavement. I'm pretty sure they 'knew' how to drive. I can't remember what Jeep did, but I think part of the fix involved a lower ride height.
I've firmed up the suspension of my Jeep so it can take turns and do emergency lane changes with some degree of confidence. I won't buy an Escape. I absolutely hate the ergonomics of the vehicle. I find my father's WJ Grand Cherokee with front and rear solid axles to have a much better ride than the Ford Escape... I won't buy GM, never had good experiences with their cars or their dealers. The Subaru, I haven't looked at but I'm gonna go check it out.
JHZR2
Staff member
The legacy wagon with 168hp 4 cyl and MT gets 30 MPG highway, and looks like it is high enough off the ground so that you can do an oil change without ramps.
JMH
JMH
Liberty, schmiberty, I'm talking about a Cherokee.
When I said it handles well, I wasn't referring to it's ability to let you drive over a dead body without feeling it, in fact, quite the opposite, it has a rather stiff suspension, quite unlike most of the SUVs I've driven which are very softly sprung and as a result feel like a boat.
(Some people seem to consider a vehicle that "handles well" as one that insulates you from the road as much as possible, in luxury Cadillac fashion)..
Tosh... Liberty = A fake Jeep... any Jeep with independent suspension isn't a real Jeep. End of dicussion.
I'm not a crazy drive by any means. I know the limits of all the vehicles I drive. After today, I'm leaning more towards the 3/4 ton Dodge Ram Cummins because it will give me the utility and gas mileage that no SUV can give me.. except for a Nissan Murano (tempting but um... I think I'll pass).
I'm not a crazy drive by any means. I know the limits of all the vehicles I drive. After today, I'm leaning more towards the 3/4 ton Dodge Ram Cummins because it will give me the utility and gas mileage that no SUV can give me.. except for a Nissan Murano (tempting but um... I think I'll pass).
JHZR2
Staff member
Hooray!!!!
JeepZJ4.0,
If you DO NOT want to be on a first name basis with your local Chrysler dealers' service desk AND if you don't want to spend too much time working on your vehicle, then by all means go for the TOYOTA as it will easily give you and your family 250,000 + + miles.
If you DO NOT want to be on a first name basis with your local Chrysler dealers' service desk AND if you don't want to spend too much time working on your vehicle, then by all means go for the TOYOTA as it will easily give you and your family 250,000 + + miles.
H2Guru... in all honesty, our local Chrysler dealer does know us by a first name basis but only because we own one Chrysler Pacifica and two Jeep Grand Cherokees. They are all very reliable vehicles (with the exception of mine since it is at the 10 year marker) and have never given us any problems what-so-ever. My mother's Toyota Avalon has had a fair share of problems with interior pieces falling out and squeeky steering pumps. It also costs much less to maintain the Chryslers than the Toyota.
Oh, the 4 runners require premium gasoline to get their maximum power rating sooo I'll pass.
The Scout probably will out last an Excursion.
"If you DO NOT want to be on a first name basis with your local Chrysler dealers' service desk AND if you don't want to spend too much time working on your vehicle, then by all means go for the TOYOTA as it will easily give you and your family 250,000 + + miles."
After watching my experience with a Dodge diesel a friend and coworker picked one up. After watching the coworker's experience two of his family members picked one up, although one was a 1/2 ton gasser. After a recent trip a friend of the friend will pick one up. None of the trucks on the coworker's side have had any problems, the friend has complained about wind noise, and I seem to have had the most problems; a visor that wouldn't stay up and a transfer case seal that was leaking a bit. All of the others tow 8k lb and larger trailers, sometimes 12k lb, but I don't tow anything.
When I moved up here to the Pacific NW over a decade ago it was pretty much Ford country outside of the cities, but now one sees Dodge diesels all over. A brother said that Dodge diesels are kind of the state truck in Alaska. In short 'they're everywhere they're everywhere ' :^)
Toyota seems to do a good job of making durable vehicles, but as their line and volume expanded their reputation has suffered as they've endured a number of recalls and other problems. Friends got rid of a Toyota Land Cruiser after it had a few miles on it as it was in the shop often, and eventually gas mileage dropped and the shop couldn't fix it. It's probably out of ordinary for the model, but it does happen.
Toyota seems to make durable vehicles by building them well and then under rating them a bit. Their trucks seem to get used a lot, but I don't see them getting 'used and abused' like I do the typical heavy duty 1/2 ton and larger trucks. In part they can't because Toyota seems to consistently use small axles on their vehicels. I think it makes sense to consider the model and not the make, as everyone seems to make a turkey once in awhile, and some make some excellent models even though the rest of the line isn't remarkable. Ford F150 gas trucks are a good example of the latter.
Here's a link comparing diesels vs gas,
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-07-26-engines.htm#diesel
Engine problems for hybrids,diesels
Owners of hybrid cars had more complaints about their engines the past three years than owners of conventional gasoline vehicles did. The industry average for all types of vehicles was 35 engine problems per 100 vehicles. Engine problems reported per 100 vehicles for hybrid vehicles and similar gas-powered vehicles:
After watching my experience with a Dodge diesel a friend and coworker picked one up. After watching the coworker's experience two of his family members picked one up, although one was a 1/2 ton gasser. After a recent trip a friend of the friend will pick one up. None of the trucks on the coworker's side have had any problems, the friend has complained about wind noise, and I seem to have had the most problems; a visor that wouldn't stay up and a transfer case seal that was leaking a bit. All of the others tow 8k lb and larger trailers, sometimes 12k lb, but I don't tow anything.
When I moved up here to the Pacific NW over a decade ago it was pretty much Ford country outside of the cities, but now one sees Dodge diesels all over. A brother said that Dodge diesels are kind of the state truck in Alaska. In short 'they're everywhere they're everywhere ' :^)
Toyota seems to do a good job of making durable vehicles, but as their line and volume expanded their reputation has suffered as they've endured a number of recalls and other problems. Friends got rid of a Toyota Land Cruiser after it had a few miles on it as it was in the shop often, and eventually gas mileage dropped and the shop couldn't fix it. It's probably out of ordinary for the model, but it does happen.
Toyota seems to make durable vehicles by building them well and then under rating them a bit. Their trucks seem to get used a lot, but I don't see them getting 'used and abused' like I do the typical heavy duty 1/2 ton and larger trucks. In part they can't because Toyota seems to consistently use small axles on their vehicels. I think it makes sense to consider the model and not the make, as everyone seems to make a turkey once in awhile, and some make some excellent models even though the rest of the line isn't remarkable. Ford F150 gas trucks are a good example of the latter.
Here's a link comparing diesels vs gas,
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-07-26-engines.htm#diesel
Engine problems for hybrids,diesels
Owners of hybrid cars had more complaints about their engines the past three years than owners of conventional gasoline vehicles did. The industry average for all types of vehicles was 35 engine problems per 100 vehicles. Engine problems reported per 100 vehicles for hybrid vehicles and similar gas-powered vehicles:
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