If pleats are wavy, so what ?

[barryh]

That looks like a filter bypass valve malfunction. No wavy pleats could lead to the metal core collapsing like that. There are no pleats on earth that will prevent that much force destroying an oil filter if the metal core gets collapsed from too much delta-p across the filter.

My thought was not that wavy pleats are going to cause an excessive pressure drop across the filter but that they are weaker than straight pleats and may pre-dispose a filter to collapse under certain conditions. Pity I didn't take photo of the pleats with that perforated sleeve removed. The pleats were folded hard flat on top of the inner sleeve and the sleeve is quite thin metal and easily crushed. Once the pleats were folded flat on top of each other I think that provided enough pressure to squash the tube .

The bypass was fine, it's a simple spring loaded ball bearing although quite a small aperture. This is from a motorcycle engine with an unusually high oil flow rate and pressure. I assumed the bypass must have worked otherwise the minimal flow through that collapsed filter might have wrecked the engine. This happend 10 years back when I accidently over reved a cold engine. It hasn't happened since even with identical filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

My thought was not that wavy pleats are going to cause an excessive pressure drop across the filter but that they are weaker than straight pleats and may pre-dispose a filter to collapse under certain conditions. Pity I didn't take photo of the pleats with that perforated sleeve removed. The pleats were folded hard flat on top of the inner sleeve and the sleeve is quite thin metal and easily crushed. Once the pleats were folded flat on top of each other I think that provided enough pressure to squash the tube .

The bypass was fine, it's a simple spring loaded ball bearing although quite a small aperture. This is from a motorcycle engine with an unusually high oil flow rate and pressure. I assumed the bypass must have worked otherwise the minimal flow through that collapsed filter might have wrecked the engine. This happend 10 years back when I accidently over reved a cold engine. It hasn't happened since even with identical filters.

Sounds like the filter bypass was WAY undersized to me, especially for a high flow oil pump. Even if the filter got clogged from lots of debris and the pleats were still straight, it sounds like the delta-p could get way over what the filter bypass could handle. If the bypass can't handle the bypass flow, the delta-p will just keep rising way above the bypass valve setting.

 

[pbm]

What does it tell you?

I'd take a lot of heat and maybe get banned if I gave you my opinion....let's just say I used to be a 'buy American' guy...

 

[Baveux]

I'd take a lot of heat and maybe get banned if I gave you my opinion....let's just say I used to be a 'buy American' guy...I'm not anymore.

I'd take a lot of heat and maybe get banned if I gave you my opinion....let's just say I used to be a 'buy American' guy...I'm not anymore.

GO GO GO PBM Put your flame suit on, im interested to hear what you have to say, im not buying in this ERA where everybody share the same discours ...

 

[Shel_B]

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[ARCOgraphite]

That looks like a big deal for some, i need guidance in order to know why ...

If the filtering media is crimped or glued properly top and bottom with a good tight joint at the seam so whats the big deal with uneven pleat space and waves ... its a filter not a works of art

On a used part, waves can indicate moisture in the oil or high delta p. Can tear at the end caps. Happens in the very cold winter. Happened on My 2.5L Nissan Rogue running a 14 dollar high performance Filtech Honda filter for a S2000 across winter. Photos have been posted.

 

[Sayjac]

Back when I had my 08 Passat, I used Fram CH9911 cartridge filters

The original ones where Made in Germany filters, that fit perfectly in the oil filter housing. But when Fram stopped selling German made filters and went with a different endcap design and manufacturing location....

The first "Fram" CH991 cartridge pictured was in reality a/the Mann made filter cartridge rebadged to say Fram. The second one is after Fram brought manufacture of the cartridge in house. The Hyun/Kia OEM cartridge made by Mahle was also rebadged with Fram label, don't know if still is. That practice frequently done with low sales volume filters.

As for wavy pleats, in my observation and imo, generally speaking some wave to the pleats much ado about nothing. If it's combined with very wide pleat spacing that when some issue like a tear could occur. The Pentastar 3.6L cartridge is a relatively long one and harmless pleat wave often seen in that application.

 

[UG_Passat]

The first "Fram" CH991 cartridge pictured was in reality a/the Mann made filter cartridge rebadged to say Fram. The second one is after Fram brought manufacture of the cartridge in house. The Hyun/Kia OEM cartridge made by Mahle was also rebadged with Fram label, don't know if still is. That practice frequently done with low sales volume filters.

As for wavy pleats, in my observation and imo, generally speaking some wave to the pleats much ado about nothing. If it's combined with very wide pleat spacing that when some issue like a tear could occur. The Pentastar 3.6L cartridge is a relatively long one and harmless pleat wave often seen in that application.

Mahle filters where the same construction as the Mann, which is why I didn't specifically call out a manufacturer. Hengst uses a different endcap, the one the Fram emulated.

 

[bullwinkle]

When a $2 Chinese made Prime Guard oil filter has perfectly straight and even pleats while a $7 American made filter has wavy uneven pleats it tells me something.

It CAN mean that the USA made one has higher efficiency than the Chinese one, so the higher delta-P causes media distortion. Or the USA manufacturer just has bad QC & didn't put in enough media in the first place... I would feel better if Prime Guard actually published some efficiency data, otherwise I just assume it's some bad number like 50%@35 microns or so.

 

[bullwinkle]

I'd take a lot of heat and maybe get banned if I gave you my opinion....let's just say I used to be a 'buy American' guy...

I'll try it-these days, a USA brand name doesn't necessarily mean all USA, or USA made at all.

 

[Sayjac]

Mahle filters where the same construction as the Mann, which is why I didn't specifically call out a manufacturer. Hengst uses a different endcap, the one the Fram emulated.

Not sure of your point. Mine was simply to clarify for readers that "Fram" labeled cartridge filter in the first pic was actually a rebadged Mann cartridge, likely identical to the OEM Mann. I didn't see that mentioned why I picked up on it. Perhaps the Mahle is the same, idk, like to see a citing as confirmation. But not that important to me. Point was/is the first Fram labeled cartridge was not made by Fram, which at least 'in my observation' seemed to the impression left.

 

[UG_Passat]

Not sure of your point. Mine was simply to clarify for readers that "Fram" labeled cartridge filter in the first pic was actually a rebadged Mann cartridge, likely identical to the OEM Mann. I didn't see that mentioned why I picked up on it. Perhaps the Mahle is the same, idk, like to see a citing as confirmation. But not that important to me. Point was/is the first Fram labeled cartridge was not made by Fram, which at least 'in my observation' seemed to the impression left.

Even on VAG branded filters, Mann still puts their logo on it.

And the Fram filter undercuts the Mann filter price, which was why I used Fram back then, so I doubt Mann-Hummel would allow Fram to sell their product at a cheaper price than their own.

THese days you can order from Walmart a similar looking filter of unknown origin with no markings

Robot or human?

HQRP Oil Filter for Audi A3 2006 2007 2008 06 07 08 ; Audi TT 2008 2009 08 09 plus HQRP Coaster

Replace Part Number: Audi / Volkswagen # 06D-115-562; MANN Filter # HU719/6x; Compatibility: Audi A3 1.4L 2008 Audi A3 2.0L 2006-2008 Audi TT 2.0L 2008-2009

hqrp.com

 

[Sayjac]

^^^^ So now you're saying Fram did make the first cartridge shown, 'not' that... "Mahle filters where the same construction as the Mann, which is why I didn't specifically call out a manufacturer.",... in the first reply? Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I backed up my observation using the Hyun/Kia Mahle made cartridge as a similar example of what Fram has done in the past, put their name on the Mahle made OEM cartridge, with no Mahle label on it. There's been several threads about it. I would add, NEVER seen a Fram made cartridge with the construction shown in the first pic. Otoh, the first pic shows typical Mann Euro cartridge construction. And second cartridge shows typical current EG/TG cartridge construction.

 

[odie]

Those are intentional waves and those like the new Ultra without the wire mesh are not .