First, thanks for all the comments on my earlier post. I believe I will disregard what the service managers said. Do I only need to change the filter when I change the oil at 7500 miles or should it be changed at the halfway point (say around 3500 miles)?
If I Go 7500 OCI Do I Change Filter Sooner?
- Thread starter fairhaven
- Start date
- Status
Most OEMs have been spec'g this OCI in their max for quite some time so Id say no. If you are using an extended OCI filter like Ams, M1, K&N, the Approp Fram you would have addtl comfort Id think.
I've never gone 7,500 miles but the last OCI I did on my mom's car for 5,000 miles we just used a basic filter with a nitrile ADBV and it held up fine for the 5,000 miles, no issues at all. I wouldn't bother changing it.
Just use a high quality oil filter(and by that I mean Wix, Purolater, Motorcraft, etc.) and you should be good to go...
I do not like ACDelco filters. Long story...
Put a Napa Gold on there and a your choice of brand name oil that is on sale that also meets your specs and sleep well at night!
I do not like ACDelco filters. Long story...
Put a Napa Gold on there and a your choice of brand name oil that is on sale that also meets your specs and sleep well at night!
Cut a used filter open and see if you find anything in it.
You should be fine to 7500 miles with no problem. However, I've always wondered just how dirty these filters really get on gas engines. Everytime I change the oil and filter on our Accord, I feel like the filter is still good. I highly doubt it's "clogged" at 7500 miles.
I've never even spotted anything noticeable in the pleats of every oil filter I've cut open, I'd imagine it would take a LOT of sludge/time to clog a filter.
Camu....why don't you like ac delco filters? I am using one right now on my neon, and have heard good and bad things about them..
I've opened lots of filters and found two of them where the media has started to tear slightly at the end, after about 9000 miles in winter, and one that was torn open after 6000 miles/ 1yr. Choose your filters wisely.
An oil filter will typically work better as it gets dirty, until it becomes clogged. I don't think there is any way that will happen with a modern engine if you change it when the manufacturer specs. I did some experimentation with this: my filters (for older BMW) get significantly lower insolubles on their second 6-7k run than their first, so the optimum time to change them appears to be well after 10k miles. They are pretty ordinary-sized filters.
Filters on my GM 3.1L V6 engine are rated for 15k miles, and that's the smaller version of the filter.
I run the double-sized one, which should be good for 25k miles.
Plus oils are better today, so the oils themselves are less likely to coke.
7500 OCI is pretty short, I'd suggest at least doubling that on pretty much everything GM makes, and going much higher on a case-by-case basis with a quality synthetic.
I run the double-sized one, which should be good for 25k miles.
Plus oils are better today, so the oils themselves are less likely to coke.
7500 OCI is pretty short, I'd suggest at least doubling that on pretty much everything GM makes, and going much higher on a case-by-case basis with a quality synthetic.
A few years ago I ran two OCI of 12,000 miles each. On one I changed the filter at the 7500 mile marker and the second just went the entire 12,000 on the same filter. Both UOA were basically identical.
My perosnl conclusion, (after that test and after cutting open way too many of the cans) in a well operating engine oilfilters are pretty much useless appendages that are more for catastrophic damage ( if they can even do anything about that) then anything else. Years ago they served a major purpose, today, you will still get 200,000 miles out of your engine with about any filter on the market and changing it every second OCI as well. just my opinion
My perosnl conclusion, (after that test and after cutting open way too many of the cans) in a well operating engine oilfilters are pretty much useless appendages that are more for catastrophic damage ( if they can even do anything about that) then anything else. Years ago they served a major purpose, today, you will still get 200,000 miles out of your engine with about any filter on the market and changing it every second OCI as well. just my opinion
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
I do not like ACDelco filters. Long story...
Put a Napa Gold on there and a your choice of brand name oil that is on sale that also meets your specs and sleep well at night!
the last 4 Ac delco's(PF52's) i cut open were an exact replica
to a wix/NG,,same filter(quality).
you must have gotten a cheap made in mexico one's
I do not like ACDelco filters. Long story...
Put a Napa Gold on there and a your choice of brand name oil that is on sale that also meets your specs and sleep well at night!
the last 4 Ac delco's(PF52's) i cut open were an exact replica
to a wix/NG,,same filter(quality).
you must have gotten a cheap made in mexico one's
I run my wifes kia serento to 5000 miles with a filter change in the middle. I use Delcos now but have had the occasional fram in there. I open them up each time just to make sure the media is not coming apart.
Funny thing is, no matter what filter I end up with, around 3500 miles it will develope a "tick" at start up that goes away after a filter change and top off. I think the only filter that did not do this was a Wix
Funny thing is, no matter what filter I end up with, around 3500 miles it will develope a "tick" at start up that goes away after a filter change and top off. I think the only filter that did not do this was a Wix
I don't buy into the 'doom and gloom' that an oil filter is shot at 10K miles.
Ok, so we have nice objective measurements on lots of different oils in lots of different engines run for lots of different times, but nobody has objective data on filters?
Sure, Wix shows filter betas for some filters at two particle sizes, but that doesn't tell me about filter capacity or how well it's filtering 5000 miles later.
Does anyone know of a good source for objective data on used oil filters? I'd love to see pressure drop and beta tests after it's been run for a while.
I'll be searching the web more to see if there is anything out there, but I thought I'd ask here as well.
Asterix
Sure, Wix shows filter betas for some filters at two particle sizes, but that doesn't tell me about filter capacity or how well it's filtering 5000 miles later.
Does anyone know of a good source for objective data on used oil filters? I'd love to see pressure drop and beta tests after it's been run for a while.
I'll be searching the web more to see if there is anything out there, but I thought I'd ask here as well.
Asterix
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
Quote:
Does anyone know of a good source for objective data on used oil filters? I'd love to see pressure drop and beta tests after it's been run for a while.
The images are gone ...but I did some work with a remote dual mount where I put a block adapter in place of the second filter and put individual gauges in the IN:OUT ports. Later another member sent me a 9k old PureOne to test. I had swapped out the individual gauges for a differential gauge. I had a new teacup PureOne on the mount and never saw the needle twitch. I was disappointed that nothing happened. You "thought" that you may have seen a tiny-teeny blip upon hitting the key ..but you were never sure. I then put on the 9k filter ...drained the oil and replaced it with (thinking) 15w40 ..and let it sit over night in subfreezing weather. The starting temp was something like 27F at mid morning. There I did see enough PSID to almost reach the specified bypass valve threshold. It quickly eroded and stabilized somewhere around 2PSID. The difference between it and a brand new filter was that you could produce a "surge" in PSID with increased volume through the filter that was related to its viscosity. For example, you could produce 4PSID with the oil temp (I had that monitored too) @ 150F if you locked the trans in 2nd and accelerated from 30-50mph. This I assume is the static resistance of the filter in a diminished capacity for throughput. All filters have this. It's one of the ratings that the manufacturers typically don't share with us. Let's say it's 10PSID with a 40 weight fluid @ 10gpm. While interesting, the spec leads us to conclude that a lower rating means more "free flowing" or whatever ..when in reality ...you'll rarely ever pass 5gpm through your filter without breaching your oil pump's pressure relief valve ..which is (almost exclusively) responsible for all the PSID that you see across the filter to begin with.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post349747
My conclusion is that filters are well buffered in terms of holding capacity for their level of filtration.
Does anyone know of a good source for objective data on used oil filters? I'd love to see pressure drop and beta tests after it's been run for a while.
The images are gone ...but I did some work with a remote dual mount where I put a block adapter in place of the second filter and put individual gauges in the IN:OUT ports. Later another member sent me a 9k old PureOne to test. I had swapped out the individual gauges for a differential gauge. I had a new teacup PureOne on the mount and never saw the needle twitch. I was disappointed that nothing happened. You "thought" that you may have seen a tiny-teeny blip upon hitting the key ..but you were never sure. I then put on the 9k filter ...drained the oil and replaced it with (thinking) 15w40 ..and let it sit over night in subfreezing weather. The starting temp was something like 27F at mid morning. There I did see enough PSID to almost reach the specified bypass valve threshold. It quickly eroded and stabilized somewhere around 2PSID. The difference between it and a brand new filter was that you could produce a "surge" in PSID with increased volume through the filter that was related to its viscosity. For example, you could produce 4PSID with the oil temp (I had that monitored too) @ 150F if you locked the trans in 2nd and accelerated from 30-50mph. This I assume is the static resistance of the filter in a diminished capacity for throughput. All filters have this. It's one of the ratings that the manufacturers typically don't share with us. Let's say it's 10PSID with a 40 weight fluid @ 10gpm. While interesting, the spec leads us to conclude that a lower rating means more "free flowing" or whatever ..when in reality ...you'll rarely ever pass 5gpm through your filter without breaching your oil pump's pressure relief valve ..which is (almost exclusively) responsible for all the PSID that you see across the filter to begin with.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post349747
My conclusion is that filters are well buffered in terms of holding capacity for their level of filtration.
Here's a study showing a UOA every 1000 miles for 18,000 miles, and a filter change at 12,000 miles:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
As you can see, the greatest rate of accumulation of wear metals occurs in the first 3,000 miles. There is a reduction in wear metals with the filter change at 12,000 miles, suggesting that there is a benefit to changing the filter at that time.
There's a lot to digest from this survey and it wasn't even intended to rate the filter (they don't even say what filter was used). It's good information to know if you're considering extended OCIs and filter changes.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
As you can see, the greatest rate of accumulation of wear metals occurs in the first 3,000 miles. There is a reduction in wear metals with the filter change at 12,000 miles, suggesting that there is a benefit to changing the filter at that time.
There's a lot to digest from this survey and it wasn't even intended to rate the filter (they don't even say what filter was used). It's good information to know if you're considering extended OCIs and filter changes.
- Status
Similar threads
