I know, its just a technicality.. and Godwin's corollary applies after any post receives more than 10 replies.
or as they say, the best gun to use is the one you have with you.
If 10mm is ok for bears, why not 357 mag?
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I know, its just a technicality.. and Godwin's corollary applies after any post receives more than 10 replies.
or as they say, the best gun to use is the one you have with you.
I’m gonna say the weapon is the issue for most, not the round, as some mentioned. Ballistics aren’t that dissimilar. But I don’t know. We don’t really have bear here so it is not something I’m an experienced with.
I carry a G17 with 124 FMJ when I hunt or hike. Pigs and dogs are the animals to watch out for around here.
I carry a G17 with 124 FMJ when I hunt or hike. Pigs and dogs are the animals to watch out for around here.
When hiking in bear country, I prefer to carry a 12 gauge with 18" barrel and Brenneke Black Magic slugs. 3" magnum, 602 grain, 3000 ft.lbs. of energy. 12 gauge is roughly 72 caliber. They are also consistent and accurate at the range, bench rested at 50 yards with nothing but the bead for sighting they can make touching holes in the paper. It's what some of the rangers carry in Yukon and Alaska, if well placed, a 1 shot stop on any land animal in N America.
If in areas where openly carrying a shotgun is problematic, and you must resort to a handgun, carry the biggest most powerful one you can shoot quickly and reliably. Hits with a 9mm may not be ideal against bear but they beat misses or failures with a .357 or .44 or .480. If using a standard caliber like 9mm or .45, using +P with hard cast flat nose bullets improves penetration which you want with bears, instead of the standard JHPs recommended for defense against smaller animals like humans or dogs.
If in areas where openly carrying a shotgun is problematic, and you must resort to a handgun, carry the biggest most powerful one you can shoot quickly and reliably. Hits with a 9mm may not be ideal against bear but they beat misses or failures with a .357 or .44 or .480. If using a standard caliber like 9mm or .45, using +P with hard cast flat nose bullets improves penetration which you want with bears, instead of the standard JHPs recommended for defense against smaller animals like humans or dogs.
I know, its just a technicality.. and Godwin's corollary applies after any post receives more than 10 replies.
or as they say, the best gun to use is the one you have with you.
That's funny!
...or the other side of that a quote from Buford T Justice - "and thats nothing but pure and simple old fashioned communism".
Danish?
Through the years I've read far more horror stories about bears shot with handguns, than success stories. That said, shot placement is vital on ANY animal that is capable of hurting you. Regardless of what you shoot him with.
And shooting him 5 times in the butt and feet isn't going to help you form a lasting friendship with one, who was mad at you to begin with. And it's always more difficult to hit with a handgun at distance, than it is with a rifle.
Look at all of these police encounters where the cop is suddenly surprised by a bad guy who comes out blasting. Many empty their guns without much, if any success. Mostly because they're operating out of pure panic.
Carrying a handgun in bear country is fine. But I would for certain want something better in addition to it. A short barreled shotgun with slugs, or something in the order of a .45-70 carbine comes to mind.
And shooting him 5 times in the butt and feet isn't going to help you form a lasting friendship with one, who was mad at you to begin with. And it's always more difficult to hit with a handgun at distance, than it is with a rifle.
Look at all of these police encounters where the cop is suddenly surprised by a bad guy who comes out blasting. Many empty their guns without much, if any success. Mostly because they're operating out of pure panic.
Carrying a handgun in bear country is fine. But I would for certain want something better in addition to it. A short barreled shotgun with slugs, or something in the order of a .45-70 carbine comes to mind.
Danish. The Sirius Patrol. They carry Glock 20s (10mm) and M1917 rifles (.30-06).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol#Equipment
Nice link. From that article:
The patrolmen feel that the M2 armor-piercing military round is best against aggressive polar bears at long range, but that the hollow-point rounds are better against an enraged musk ox. Typically, the patrolmen arrange their magazine so every third round is a hollow-point.
The Sirius Dog Sled Patrol formerly used Pistol M/49 sidearms chambered in 9×19mm Parabellum, but they proved insufficient as a last resort defence against the polar bears encountered.
An author on ammoland.com has been documenting every scrap of historical and recent self defense incidents involving handgun use. Even to the point of using freedom of information requests. The net result of the research is that handguns are highly effective. Much more than popularity assumed, even with non-magnum calibers.
Do you have a link for that? I couldn’t find it.
I do remember reading about a fishing guide that killed an aggressive Grizzly with a Smith and Wesson 9mm and hard cast bullets but that was considered a miracle.
The problem with handguns is not energy, but accuracy. Most people don't shoot them as well as they think they can. Add distance, a dangerous moving target, duress, and the fail factor increases substantially.
Police shootouts from all over the country have proven this. Especially since most all departments have gone to high capacity semi autos.
Agreed, but misses are deterring, too, against wildlife. Not always, but often.
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That is a good way to put it.....potential energy on target vs time to shoot. This is why I choose a semi auto.
.357 @ 700ftlbs x 6rds = 4200
10mm @ 650ft lbs x 12rds = 7800
with this math you could miss 5 times, and still have same energy on target
good post
Most of the bolts on a bear require a 10mm socket. You would likely need a 19mm if you change a bear's tires. I'm not sure if a 357 would ever be needed unless you've lost the 10mm again.
Taurus .454 Casull in a long barrel revolver, FN 5.7/P90 combo
Underwood makes a 700 grain flat nose hardcast round for the .500 S&W Magnum. That should be good medicine for most any sized bear. Out of either a handgun or a rifle. Expensive, but a much better option than dealing with claws and teeth.
https://underwoodammo.com/500-s-w-m...e-black-cherry-coated-hard-cast-hunting-ammo/
https://underwoodammo.com/500-s-w-m...e-black-cherry-coated-hard-cast-hunting-ammo/
Definitely a good way to look at. However we shouldn’t hyper focus on ballistics with handguns on large animals especially. Penetration of vital structures is what is going to put the large animal away with a pistol round. I see this choice as giving one more chances to puncture vital structures not as more kinetic energy summed on target.
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or T-Rex when they return!
