If 10mm is ok for bears, why not 357 mag?

paulo57509 said:
What caliber? It depends on the bear.

Repellent or extermination? Sometimes you intend to do the former and you end up being the latter.

Some Alaskan guides carry a lever in .45-70. I suppose that would be my minimum caliber.
Click to expand...
sure enough, Marlin did the right thing when they came out with these things for people in bear country.
111.jpg
 
Nuclear_42 said:
Only a handful of companies actually load 10mm to it's proper powerhouse levels. Underwood being the flagship ammo. Why carry a 6 shot .357 when you can have a Glock 20 with 15rds of 10mm semi-auto. 20 round mag plus are also available. Now with the Gen 5 mos you cent even mount the red dot optic of your choice. IMHO I rather have 15-20 round mag dump on a charging bear than a flimsy 5-6 shot revolver.
Click to expand...

There is a reason the 10 MM ammo has been watered down.

With the 10 you are forced into a compromise to run that ammo.

With the powerhouse ammo you start to run into issues with the automatic delivering consistent performance, factory springs and hot loads end up opening early and your power goes away. You need to start using different slide and hammer springs which will beat up the lugs and slide stop - then the lighter stuff wont cycle as well.

The revolver has no issue with the lightest to hottest handholds.

Your "average" 10MM out of a 6" barrel is about 100ft lb shy of what the "average" 357 will deliver.
Between 36 and 59 lb ft is enough to kill a man so it's a significant delta.

As of today I cant get a 15 or a 20 round mag. (perhaps good news on this front?)
To me its 6 vs 10 and I'd rather each one delivery a deadlier blow.
Id wager that in either case one is only going to be able to land 3 or 4 good shots against a charging bear.

It's easier to mount a scope or dot on a 357.

Hard to make a case for them being "flimsy" - if anything a revolver will be tougher and more reliable than an auto.

No one can make a case for the 10 MM being more versatile, you are stuck with one ammo.

Any old 357 can shoot three different power and cost levels of projectile, punching paper is cheap with 38's

In carbine form the 357 delivers FAR more wallop out of an 18 barrel.
 
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UncleDave said:
There is a reason the 10 MM ammo has been watered down.

With the 10 you are forced into a compromise to run that ammo.

With the powerhouse ammo you start to run into issues with the automatic delivering consistent performance, factory springs and hot loads end up opening early and your power goes away. You need to start using different slide and hammer springs which will beat up the lugs and slide stop - then the lighter stuff wont cycle as well.

The revolver has no issue with the lightest to hottest handholds.

Your "average" 10MM out of a 6" barrel is about 100ft lb shy of what the "average" 357 will deliver.
Between 36 and 59 lb ft is enough to kill a man so it's a significant delta.

As of today I cant get a 15 or a 20 round mag. (perhaps good news on this front?)
To me its 6 vs 10 and I'd rather each one delivery a deadlier blow.
Id wager that in either case one is only going to be able to land 3 or 4 good shots against a charging bear.

It's easier to mount a scope or dot on a 357.

Hard to make a case for them being "flimsy" - if anything a revolver will be tougher and more reliable than an auto.

No one can make a case for the 10 MM being more versatile, you are stuck with one ammo.

Any old 357 can shoot three different power and cost levels of projectile, punching paper is cheap with 38's

In carbine form the 357 delivers FAR more wallop out of an 18 barrel.
Click to expand...
The Glock 29 and 20 have been available for decades. This year the Glock 20 Gen 5 dropped. Glocks 10mm are extremely reliable and will handle a steady diet of any power house brand. Where do you get your mags from? Because all the 15-20 plus oem mags are cheap and available at every major retailer online and in stores. The glock 20 holds 15 rounds flush mags and gen 5 comes milled from the factory for an optic. If im walking in the woods and get a bear charging on my I don't need a scoped 357 or a 6 shot revolver. I'd take a 15-20 round glock 20 10mm with proper ammo any day over a revolver. If your really into handgun hunting a Glock 40 will provide a 6 in barrel for you. Is anyone going to dispute glock reliability? Anyways OP specifically asked for 10mm which im assuming is a handgun. Now if he or she is looking for a hunting rig any name brand rifle with large caliber will suffice.
 
Nuclear_42 said:
The Glock 29 and 20 have been available for decades. This year the Glock 20 Gen 5 dropped. Glocks 10mm are extremely reliable and will handle a steady diet of any power house brand. Where do you get your mags from? Because all the 15-20 plus oem mags are cheap and available at every major retailer online and in stores. The glock 20 holds 15 rounds flush mags and gen 5 comes milled from the factory for an optic. If im walking in the woods and get a bear charging on my I don't need a scoped 357 or a 6 shot revolver. I'd take a 15-20 round glock 20 10mm with proper ammo any day over a revolver. If your really into handgun hunting a Glock 40 will provide a 6 in barrel for you. Is anyone going to dispute glock reliability? Anyways OP specifically asked for 10mm which im assuming is a handgun. Now if he or she is looking for a hunting rig any name brand rifle with large caliber will suffice.
Click to expand...

I dont want a striker pin gun period. From anyone.
The gun will stay together, but the springs have ranges for a reason. The buffalo guys have similar things to say about springs.
They are reliable, but Ive had my issues with them and other semis. (and revolvers )
You cant get anything past 10 rds in my state - or mail order them in, and you can get in trouble in certain places if you have them, so I just keep the ones I have in the safe. I've got a safe full of aftermarket mags and stick with the factory stuff when I can.
You brought up mounts, I'm saying it's easier to mount on a revolver I said scope but I should have just said mount.

Of the two types of weapons one is completely dependent on the ammunition for its cycling, the other immune from a bad or light round.

That the cool thing about guns, we get to each pick what we want for our own reasons.
Personally I like them all and find picking one a very hard task.
 
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UncleDave said:
There is a reason the 10 MM ammo has been watered down.

With the 10 you are forced into a compromise to run that ammo.

With the powerhouse ammo you start to run into issues with the automatic delivering consistent performance, factory springs and hot loads end up opening early and your power goes away. You need to start using different slide and hammer springs which will beat up the lugs and slide stop - then the lighter stuff wont cycle as well.

The revolver has no issue with the lightest to hottest handholds.

Your "average" 10MM out of a 6" barrel is about 100ft lb shy of what the "average" 357 will deliver.
Between 36 and 59 lb ft is enough to kill a man so it's a significant delta.

As of today I cant get a 15 or a 20 round mag. (perhaps good news on this front?)
To me its 6 vs 10 and I'd rather each one delivery a deadlier blow.
Id wager that in either case one is only going to be able to land 3 or 4 good shots against a charging bear.

It's easier to mount a scope or dot on a 357.

Hard to make a case for them being "flimsy" - if anything a revolver will be tougher and more reliable than an auto.

No one can make a case for the 10 MM being more versatile, you are stuck with one ammo.

Any old 357 can shoot three different power and cost levels of projectile, punching paper is cheap with 38's

In carbine form the 357 delivers FAR more wallop out of an 18 barrel.
Click to expand...
I agree with this assessment in regards to ammo scarcity. I am not a wheel gun guy, but they are versatile for sure ammo wise. I disagree about the average 10mm though. It is the high pressure stuff that is close to 357 if I am understanding it correctly.

It could perhaps be down to math=which could a shooter shoot better, and deliver the MAX energy down range in the shortest amount of time, reasonably. For me, it is in a semi auto, buy i am not a old geaser either HAHAHAHA. and have little experience with revolvers.

Also, there is some mystique about wheel guns and reliability. I argue, that a revolver in field conditions would be much more apt to ingress of debris or ice for that matter, be much more difficult to clear. Understand, that is just my opinion, not an arguement against your statement.

Some pistol loads do not behave the same way out of a longer barrel, and in many cases do not perform very well at all.
 
weaponoffreedom said:
I agree with this assessment in regards to ammo scarcity. I am not a wheel gun guy, but they are versatile for sure ammo wise. I disagree about the average 10mm though. It is the high pressure stuff that is close to 357 if I am understanding it correctly.

It could perhaps be down to math=which could a shooter shoot better, and deliver the MAX energy down range in the shortest amount of time, reasonably. For me, it is in a semi auto, buy i am not a old geaser either HAHAHAHA. and have little experience with revolvers.

Also, there is some mystique about wheel guns and reliability. I argue, that a revolver in field conditions would be much more apt to ingress of debris or ice for that matter, be much more difficult to clear. Understand, that is just my opinion, not an arguement against your statement.

Some pistol loads do not behave the same way out of a longer barrel, and in many cases do not perform very well at all.
Click to expand...


The high power 10M is the closest.
On barrel length and performance I'm going by whats published.
Check out ballistics by the inch, they did a great job of benchmarking barrel length and round performance across a variety of calibres.

Like the 9mm vid on the other page, the most effective round is the one you can land in a critical kill area.
One could make the case that a few 22 LR's delivered right to the eyes would be more effective than scattered higher powered rounds elsewhere.

I remember a pretty lively debate about total moving parts and parts that dont move every cycle and the difference in parts between the two aren't as far apart as many would think. Being mechanical devices I find all are prone to problems. It was like 25 Vs 22 moving parts.

Reliability is a metric encompassing an incredibly wide variety of circumstances.

I agree with your example and can certainly make a case that ice and snow could plug up a revolver dropped in the snow pretty good and in that situation the auto would be more reliable being sealed better in general, especially a striker pin gun.
(In other arenas action "exposure" has been a thing between Marlin and Winchester guys forever )

I think the more likely scenario most people encounter is what happens to both sitting in a drawer by their bedside for years drying out and filling with dust, lint and dander. In these cases the semi hangs after 1st shot, and the revolver simply has a slightly heavier DA.
 
UncleDave said:
The high power 10M is the closest.
On barrel length and performance I'm going by whats published.
Check out ballistics by the inch, they did a great job of benchmarking barrel length and round performance across a variety of calibres.

Like the 9mm vid on the other page, the most effective round is the one you can land in a critical kill area.
One could make the case that a few 22 LR's delivered right to the eyes would be more effective than scattered higher powered rounds elsewhere.

I remember a pretty lively debate about total moving parts and parts that dont move every cycle and the difference in parts between the two aren't as far apart as many would think. Being mechanical devices I find all are prone to problems. It was like 25 Vs 22 moving parts.

Reliability is a metric encompassing an incredibly wide variety of circumstances.

I agree with your example and can certainly make a case that ice and snow could plug up a revolver dropped in the snow pretty good and in that situation the auto would be more reliable being sealed better in general, especially a striker pin gun.
(In other arenas action "exposure" has been a thing between Marlin and Winchester guys forever )

I think the more likely scenario most people encounter is what happens to both sitting in a drawer by their bedside for years drying out and filling with dust, lint and dander. In these cases the semi hangs after 1st shot, and the revolver simply has a slightly heavier DA.
Click to expand...

it worth pointing out that by the time the snow gets deep, the bears are usually in bed for the duration.
on the reliability thing, I think that term could be substituted with ease of use.
whole subject is questionable anyway, because if a person lived in Big Bear country a 10mm or a 357
are not the best tool if a person needed a bear pistol
now if it was black bears, OK those two choices would probably be viable
 
If you're rolling your own ammo then you can open up the combo to something that would work in probably a few handgun cals. You can do a lot with a 200Gr 45ACP Hornady HP bullet at +P with the correct brass and some load development. A G21 loaded with that and a 30 round mag is a lot of firepower...and noise for this purpose.
 
Bear encounters are common and yet attacks are very rare.

If one is truly worried about bears, one should be more concerned about figuring out which bear spray is best than splitting hairs over extremely similar pistol and revolver calibers.
 
MSCH said:
it worth pointing out that by the time the snow gets deep, the bears are usually in bed for the duration.
on the reliability thing, I think that term could be substituted with ease of use.
whole subject is questionable anyway, because if a person lived in Big Bear country a 10mm or a 357
are not the best tool if a person needed a bear pistol
now if it was black bears, OK those two choices would probably be viable
Click to expand...

Adverse scenario games are always fun.

Had I been given a choice I'd never primarily chose any hand gun for bear defense - and would pick exactly what you (or the guy in the pict) is holding. There is a reason it's the guide gun of choice. People left the thread question and went off in this direction.

A much tougher game to my mind is the classic - "you can only have 1 calibre to do everything with".

We get the occasional black bear, they aren't a problem. I'm in Mountain lion country and they take out livestock forcing you into confrontation with them.
 
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Shota good sized black bear in Canada some years ago with a Marlin .45-70 Cowboy (octagonal barrel) at about 85 yards. The round broke his shoulder, tore off the bottom of his heart, hit a rib on the opposite side and exited the animal. When I went to look at the kill, I found a hole in the earth next to him and dug my round out from about a foot in the ground. I was using a 350 grain round sold as +P. What a knock down round.
 
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