Especially since I see a lot of recommendations for MaxLife. It is just that when I think of a Maxlife oil I think of a high mileage oil. Don't they swell seals more?
Idemitsu ATF Type TLS-LV (WS)
- Thread starter millerbl00
- Start date
Supposedly MaxLife has more phosphorus as an anti-wear agent. There might be some seal swelling agent in the form of an ester. I want to see Mola do an chemical analysis of the stuff.
Not sure about the Europeans and MB/ZF/Voith fluids, but the Japanese build on Dexron specs for their ATFs but test for friction stability, aniline point and how well the fluid retains its qualities.
Not sure about the Europeans and MB/ZF/Voith fluids, but the Japanese build on Dexron specs for their ATFs but test for friction stability, aniline point and how well the fluid retains its qualities.
I have compared a few ATF WS compatible fluid specs and I noticed that the WS specs tend to have lower KV100 viscosity than other compatible. I don't think that is necesarellt a bad thing, especially when the transmission is an older design (mine is Toyota U151F, 5 speed derived from the 4 speed U241E designed in 2000).
So I have found: KV100 (cST); KV40 (cSt); Flash point (C/F)
Idemitsu TLS-LV: 5.3; 22.8; 170/338
Beck Arnley WS: 5.34; 23.12; 172/342
Valvoline MaxLife: 5.91; 28.82; N/A
Castrol TransMax FS: 5.90; 30.20; 177/350
LubeGuard Full Synth: 6.10; 31.0; 208/406
I am tempted by the LubeGuard product, since I have used their additive in my older cars transmissions with success, mixed with Castrol ATF (20 year old Ford and Hyundai, 200k+ miles). Their ATF has the additive added already.
For comparation, the older TLS spec has those specs: 7.3; 34.9; 200/392
So I have found: KV100 (cST); KV40 (cSt); Flash point (C/F)
Idemitsu TLS-LV: 5.3; 22.8; 170/338
Beck Arnley WS: 5.34; 23.12; 172/342
Valvoline MaxLife: 5.91; 28.82; N/A
Castrol TransMax FS: 5.90; 30.20; 177/350
LubeGuard Full Synth: 6.10; 31.0; 208/406
I am tempted by the LubeGuard product, since I have used their additive in my older cars transmissions with success, mixed with Castrol ATF (20 year old Ford and Hyundai, 200k+ miles). Their ATF has the additive added already.
For comparation, the older TLS spec has those specs: 7.3; 34.9; 200/392
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I can't edit the above post to add the two AMSOIL Fuel Efficient ATFs:
AMSOIL OE Synth Fuel Efficient: 5.8; 28.3; 210/410
AMSOIL Signature FE: 6.3; 30.8; 224/435
Gosh, look at the flash point of their Signature series!
AMSOIL OE Synth Fuel Efficient: 5.8; 28.3; 210/410
AMSOIL Signature FE: 6.3; 30.8; 224/435
Gosh, look at the flash point of their Signature series!
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http://www.aisin.com.sg/wp-content/...ynthetic-AFW_Multi_Product-Datasheet.pdf
AISIN AFW+ flash point is at 226C
AISIN AFW+ flash point is at 226C
What does flash point mean here, especially with an ATF?
Basically resistance to higher temperatures.
To flash, flammable vapors have to be released first, and that usually means that the oil breaks down.
The AWF+ is not at all WS. It kind of tells me that normal WS is just a semi-synthetic or at least Group III based oil.
KV of 7.41; 36.69 is a little higher than WS would require. It is a non-LV fluid, not recommended by them for WS applications.
Looks like a true Group IV synthetic has flash point higher than 200C.
To flash, flammable vapors have to be released first, and that usually means that the oil breaks down.
The AWF+ is not at all WS. It kind of tells me that normal WS is just a semi-synthetic or at least Group III based oil.
KV of 7.41; 36.69 is a little higher than WS would require. It is a non-LV fluid, not recommended by them for WS applications.
Looks like a true Group IV synthetic has flash point higher than 200C.
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Originally Posted by SoNic67
Basically resistance to higher temperatures.
To flash, flammable vapors have to be released first, and that usually means that the oil breaks down.
The AWF+ is not at all WS. It kind of tells me that normal WS is just a semi-synthetic or at least Group III based oil.
KV of 7.41; 36.69 is a little higher than WS would require. It is a non-LV fluid, not recommended by them for WS applications.
Looks like a true Group IV synthetic has flash point higher than 200C.
Hmm, I have to think about that. I don't see the immediate correlation between flash point and oxidation resistance, especially with medium molecular length hydrocarbons. I'm not sure what the "flammable vapors" are that are being released and how that means the oil is "breaking down". Generally "breaking down" is oxidation and shear.
Basically resistance to higher temperatures.
To flash, flammable vapors have to be released first, and that usually means that the oil breaks down.
The AWF+ is not at all WS. It kind of tells me that normal WS is just a semi-synthetic or at least Group III based oil.
KV of 7.41; 36.69 is a little higher than WS would require. It is a non-LV fluid, not recommended by them for WS applications.
Looks like a true Group IV synthetic has flash point higher than 200C.
Hmm, I have to think about that. I don't see the immediate correlation between flash point and oxidation resistance, especially with medium molecular length hydrocarbons. I'm not sure what the "flammable vapors" are that are being released and how that means the oil is "breaking down". Generally "breaking down" is oxidation and shear.
Originally Posted by SoNic67
Basically resistance to higher temperatures.
To flash, flammable vapors have to be released first, and that usually means that the oil breaks down.
The AWF+ is not at all WS. It kind of tells me that normal WS is just a semi-synthetic or at least Group III based oil.
KV of 7.41; 36.69 is a little higher than WS would require. It is a non-LV fluid, not recommended by them for WS applications.
Looks like a true Group IV synthetic has flash point higher than 200C.
WS is mineral based based on UOA with additives and with low kinematic viscosity whereas AISIN AFW+ and Amsoil are pure synthetic, the KV of AISIN is close to type IV but I guess the low pour point kinda makes up for it. Folks in Russia haven't had any cold related issues with it so far.
Basically resistance to higher temperatures.
To flash, flammable vapors have to be released first, and that usually means that the oil breaks down.
The AWF+ is not at all WS. It kind of tells me that normal WS is just a semi-synthetic or at least Group III based oil.
KV of 7.41; 36.69 is a little higher than WS would require. It is a non-LV fluid, not recommended by them for WS applications.
Looks like a true Group IV synthetic has flash point higher than 200C.
WS is mineral based based on UOA with additives and with low kinematic viscosity whereas AISIN AFW+ and Amsoil are pure synthetic, the KV of AISIN is close to type IV but I guess the low pour point kinda makes up for it. Folks in Russia haven't had any cold related issues with it so far.
Originally Posted by RoyFJ
WS is mineral based based on UOA with additives and with low kinematic viscosity whereas AISIN AFW+ and Amsoil are pure synthetic, the KV of AISIN is close to type IV but I guess the low pour point kinda makes up for it. Folks in Russia haven't had any cold related issues with it so far.
I was looking at the AISIN AFW+, KV 100C, for the operating temperature. That one is higher than any WS compatible. However, I have to correct myself, AISIN says it's WS compatible, even if based on the KV 100C number it seems off.
AISIN has made previously a WS fluid, but that is mineral based too: https://www.wpdusa.com/products/265...AISIN-31256774-4954514999946-ATF0WS.aspx
WS is mineral based based on UOA with additives and with low kinematic viscosity whereas AISIN AFW+ and Amsoil are pure synthetic, the KV of AISIN is close to type IV but I guess the low pour point kinda makes up for it. Folks in Russia haven't had any cold related issues with it so far.
I was looking at the AISIN AFW+, KV 100C, for the operating temperature. That one is higher than any WS compatible. However, I have to correct myself, AISIN says it's WS compatible, even if based on the KV 100C number it seems off.
AISIN has made previously a WS fluid, but that is mineral based too: https://www.wpdusa.com/products/265...AISIN-31256774-4954514999946-ATF0WS.aspx
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Originally Posted by SoNic67
Originally Posted by RoyFJ
WS is mineral based based on UOA with additives and with low kinematic viscosity whereas AISIN AFW+ and Amsoil are pure synthetic, the KV of AISIN is close to type IV but I guess the low pour point kinda makes up for it. Folks in Russia haven't had any cold related issues with it so far.
I was looking at the AISIN AFW+, KV 100C, for the operating temperature. That one is higher than any WS compatible. However, I have to correct myself, AISIN says it's WS compatible, even if based on the KV 100C number it seems off.
AISIN has made previously a WS fluid, but that is mineral based too: https://www.wpdusa.com/products/265...AISIN-31256774-4954514999946-ATF0WS.aspx
That was my concern as well but the initial A750 that my vehicle uses came with type IV and so far from the reports in Russia and other parts of Europe there has been no issues. Guess AISIN and Toyota know what they are up to.
Originally Posted by RoyFJ
WS is mineral based based on UOA with additives and with low kinematic viscosity whereas AISIN AFW+ and Amsoil are pure synthetic, the KV of AISIN is close to type IV but I guess the low pour point kinda makes up for it. Folks in Russia haven't had any cold related issues with it so far.
I was looking at the AISIN AFW+, KV 100C, for the operating temperature. That one is higher than any WS compatible. However, I have to correct myself, AISIN says it's WS compatible, even if based on the KV 100C number it seems off.
AISIN has made previously a WS fluid, but that is mineral based too: https://www.wpdusa.com/products/265...AISIN-31256774-4954514999946-ATF0WS.aspx
That was my concern as well but the initial A750 that my vehicle uses came with type IV and so far from the reports in Russia and other parts of Europe there has been no issues. Guess AISIN and Toyota know what they are up to.
From the Aisin website "ALL AISIN Automatic Transmission and CVT Fluids are 100% Synthetic." https://aisinaftermarket.com/english/products/23.html
I'm not sure but, but it seems like their fluids (their 0WS atf anyway) are made by Eneos since they use the same bottles and their SDSs are in the same font. Could this be the same stuff as Aisin 0WS? https://www.eneos.us/product/model-t-w/
I've e-mailed both companies and neither have replied. I also called Aisin, but the person I spoke with basically read the website to me. I'm just trying to find some ATF that is superior to/compatible with Toyota WS and I can't get any transparency or useful information.
I'm not sure but, but it seems like their fluids (their 0WS atf anyway) are made by Eneos since they use the same bottles and their SDSs are in the same font. Could this be the same stuff as Aisin 0WS? https://www.eneos.us/product/model-t-w/
I've e-mailed both companies and neither have replied. I also called Aisin, but the person I spoke with basically read the website to me. I'm just trying to find some ATF that is superior to/compatible with Toyota WS and I can't get any transparency or useful information.
Serviced the filter and fluid using the Idemitsu WS equivalent. 77K miles.
Good stuff!
Good stuff!
Does "serviced the filter" mean cleaned or replaced? How did it look? I really don't want to mess with mine if I don't need to.
Does the Eneos website says it’s compatible? How much more transparency do you want? It’s not licensed fluid but only the Toyota branded fluid will be.
Replaced it with a genuine one from Lexus. This is not necessary; I did it because I figured I would never do it again.
I am at 77K miles. The filter is more of a screen than a filter.
If and when you do replace the filter, go to the dealer (or online) and get a factory one.
Good luck.
Personally I have used the AISIN WS fluid because it is synthetic and because... AISIN made the transmission, so they know a thing or two about what fluid works with them. Got it from Rockauto.
I did a couple of D&Rs using this AZ 'Clearance' Idemitsu TLS-LV in an inlaws recently acquired high mileage Rav4.....no complaints.
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Aisin resells the Nippon ATF as their own. Its commonly known as Eneos T-W. I might wager that all the Aisin fluids are Eneos equivalents.
www.eneos.us
Impressive specs when compared to the above:
www.idemitsulubricants.com
www.mobil.com
Interesting to see how limited their info is compared to some of their other ATFs.
www.ravenol.de
IMPORT ATF: MODEL T-W
ENEOS Import ATF | MODEL T-W is automatic transmission fluid engineered specifically for Toyota and Lexus vehicles that require Toyota ATF Type WS Genuine Fluid. Formulated with select high-quality synthetic base oils which are combined with unique additives, ENEOS Import ATF | MODEL T-W will...
www.eneos.us
Impressive specs when compared to the above:
ATF Type TLS-LV | Idemitsu Lubricants
Engineered for and meets requirements of Toyota/Lexus/Scion Automatic Transmission with WS specifications.
www.idemitsulubricants.com
PdsDetailsPage
Mobil ™ ATF WS is an exceptionally high performance lubricant that meets original equipment manufacturers' specifications for use in certain slip-controlled lock-up automatic transmissions.
www.mobil.com
Interesting to see how limited their info is compared to some of their other ATFs.
RAVENOL ATF T-WS Lifetime
RAVENOL ATF T-WS Lifetime is automatic transmission oil ATF on the basis of the latest technology of the HC/HT hydrocrack oils and PAO. Because of the spec...
www.ravenol.de
