i3 Neue Klasse selling out?

[edyvw]

The political issues one is the dumbest one. It's not even worth mentioning, but you're right that many will cite that as their reason. I won't even get into that one, but throwing out the rest of how good the car is over some feelings is just wild to me.

Not the best EV technology? What, because it doesn't charge as fast as a couple other options? It's the most efficient EV on the market and it more than makes up for charging 2 minutes slower than the competition that costs twice as much. That 800v architecture is better on paper than it is in reality even moreso hindered by the charging network.

The automotive buying public is a fickle bunch.

I couldn't be paid enough to go back to pumping gas and a hybrid is about the worst compromise on the market for my use. It's a half measure for those afraid of a charge plug. My wife and I have driven a combined 4k miles in the last 30 days on two EVs and not once was there a charging issue with Tesla's Supercharger network. One of those was more than 800 miles in one day all on FSD. We're driving in rural areas long distance and not having problems. I don't know of a worse possible driving environment to be in with EVs and we've never run out of charge. I don't know what people are doing to get this wrong.

This 566 miles FSD streak was from that 800+ mile day. It didn't need a single intervention to do that and it wasn't trying to avoid intervening.

You tell them.

 

[Torrid]

You tell them.

I'm still waiting to hear about this amazing Mercedes FSD that drives start to finish without intervention. You know, the Level 3 system that only works on a few major highways.

 

[Torrid]

Cult is strange thing.

Show me the video of one Mercedes that drive from start to finish without intervention by a privately owned Mercedes. There's thousands of videos of Teslas on YouTube that shows this. If the Mercedes system does this I should have at least seen one of the videos by now. Maybe I missed it. Do you have a link?

 

[edyvw]

I'm still waiting to hear about this amazing Mercedes FSD that drives start to finish without intervention. You know, the Level 3 system that only works on a few major highways.

I know MB has the best. Easily to research.
But, honestly I pay attention to that as much as I do on issues that Penguins have with cold in Antartica. I am capable driving myself, so there is that.

 

[Torrid]

I know MB has the best. Easily to research.
But, honestly I pay attention to that as much as I do on issues that Penguins have with cold in Antartica. I am capable driving myself, so there is that.

So it drives from an owner's driveway to the store and parks itself without intervention to do so?

Clearly the best missing that capability. I only covered 160 miles today and drove about 400 feet myself out of personal preference. Of course the Tesla could have handled that 400 feet itself too. The Mercedes does this?

 

[edyvw]

So it drives from an owner's driveway to the store and parks itself without intervention to do so?

Clearly the best missing that capability. I only covered 160 miles today and drove about 400 feet myself out of personal preference. Of course the Tesla could have handled that 400 feet itself too. The Mercedes does this?

I really don’t know does it do, because look under Penguins in Antartica.

 

[Torrid]

I really don’t know does it do, because look under Penguins in Antartica.

Weird.

 

[4wd]

Weird.

I’m confused - a Tesla failed to dodge a Penguin ?

 

[JeffKeryk]

My thread was not intended to get into another Tesla vs whatever thread by people who don't like Teslas. Each of us can vote with our pocketbook.

My thread was about the new i3 Neue Klasse, which I have been following for years.

 

[edyvw]

I’m confused - a Tesla failed to dodge a Penguin ?

i have seen it failing to avoid fire truck.

 

[Torrid]

i have seen it failing to avoid fire truck.

I'd like to see what you mean by this one.

 

[edyvw]

I'd like to see what you mean by this one.

Terra Heute few years back. Tesla slammed into fire truck that was blocking traffic on interstate due to another accident. Two people died. It was pretty famous case. I was passing on other side.

 

[Torrid]

Terra Heute few years back. Tesla slammed into fire truck that was blocking traffic on interstate due to another accident. Two people died. It was pretty famous case. I was passing on other side.

FSD used to be a disaster. It was horrible even last year. I'm not happy with how FSD has been marketed and I don't blame anyone for thinking FSD is a horrible thing. It used to be. I wouldn't even touch it last year. A lot has changed. Tesla needs to find a way to actually explain what's happening with FSD if they want to get buy in from the general public.

If all I knew was my early experience with FSD I'd hate it more than you ever could. It put me in screwed up situations. It even signaled and tried to put me in a ditch. I posted that here when it happened. I used to openly trash talk FSD even as a Tesla owner. There's plenty of posts on this exact forum that shows that.

Even as a hater of Tesla and FSD, I definitely recommend getting a test drive and trying the current system. I would have never thought FSD would get where it is now with a camera only setup. Never in a million years did I think a self driving system would ever get to the point that I would feel comfortable with it. I'm a control freak with an extensive background in racing and performance driving and have actively denounced the idea of automation in privately owned cars. It's so good now I wish bad drivers were forced to use it. Maybe people would stop crashing into my parked car or when I was stopped at a red light. I've lost count of how many times I've been rear ended while stopped for an extended period of time.

 

[JeffKeryk]

7.5% is really not a flex.
That accounts for people who generally are not brand loyal.

"not brand loyal" means buying another brand; this is to a specific brand. The "not brand loyal" has to be much higher, right? Owners tend to chose Audi, MBZ and Tesla.

Again, my thread was about the Neue Klasse.

 

[edyvw]

FSD used to be a disaster. It was horrible even last year. I'm not happy with how FSD has been marketed and I don't blame anyone for thinking FSD is a horrible thing. It used to be. I wouldn't even touch it last year. A lot has changed. Tesla needs to find a way to actually explain what's happening with FSD if they want to get buy in from the general public.

If all I knew was my early experience with FSD I'd hate it more than you ever could. It put me in screwed up situations. It even signaled and tried to put me in a ditch. I posted that here when it happened. I used to openly trash talk FSD even as a Tesla owner. There's plenty of posts on this exact forum that shows that.

Even as a hater of Tesla and FSD, I definitely recommend getting a test drive and trying the current system. I would have never thought FSD would get where it is now with a camera only setup. Never in a million years did I think a self driving system would ever get to the point that I would feel comfortable with it. I'm a control freak with an extensive background in racing and performance driving and have actively denounced the idea of automation in privately owned cars. It's so good now I wish bad drivers were forced to use it. Maybe people would stop crashing into my parked car or when I was stopped at a red light. I've lost count of how many times I've been rear ended while stopped for an extended period of time.

So, it never occurred to you that other companies have different approach that doesn’t involve killing customers for bragging rights?

 

[edyvw]

"not brand loyal" means buying another brand; this is to a specific brand. The "not brand loyal" has to be much higher, right? Owners tend to chose Audi, MBZ and Tesla.

Again, my thread was about the Neue Klasse.

Yes. A lot if people cross shop. 7.5% is actually not a lot.
Tesla’s problem is not BMW or MB, it is BYD and 435 other EV companies in China.

 

[Torrid]

So, it never occurred to you that other companies have different approach that doesn’t involve killing customers for bragging rights?

There was a reason I kept you on ignore normally. You're intentionally combative instead of having an actual insightful conversation. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but you have to get the gotcha instead of being a respectful human being. Thank you for reminding me. I'll fix that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I know MB has the best. Easily to research.
But, honestly I pay attention to that as much as I do on issues that Penguins have with cold in Antartica. I am capable driving myself, so there is that.

Drive Pilot Level 3 is strictly geofenced. Is it parts of California and Nevada, limited to certain streets? Not sure.

 

[edyvw]

Drive Pilot Level 3 is strictly geofenced. Is it parts of California and Nevada, limited to certain streets? Not sure.

I find it ridiculous talking about FSD. It is software, that will Chinese crack it in no time. The difference in EV’s are going to come to suspension and interior. Everyone will have FSD or whatever.
However, suspension will stay mechanical and interior quality won’t be possible to write as software.
That is why Chinese are threat to majority of automakers, including Tesla.
BMW always knew how to make suspension. In the end, Tesla and most manufacturers who pay attention on performance, copy BMW rear suspension from E39. So they will have their market, as well as MB (not sure about Audi). But rest have work cut for themselves.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes. A lot if people cross shop. 7.5% is actually not a lot.
Tesla’s problem is not BMW or MB, it is BYD and 435 other EV companies in China.

I never said Tesla had a problem with those companies. Quite the opposite; Tesla has been taking market share from them for years. However, the market is changing, as Mercedes and BMW are ramping competitive electric vehicles. The i3 is one such a example.

China is the biggest car market. Who has a bigger problem in China, BMW, Tesla, Mercedes?
BMW and Mercedes face a deeper and more structural crisis in China than Tesla. They both saw sales in China drop roughly 30% year-over-year in recent quarters, forcing profit warnings and core margin cuts down to as low as 1%.

That's not what I think; that's the numbers that come from their quarterly reports.