I View Traffic Incidents Differently Than The General Public!

[George7941]

This is an old incident from 2013 but it nicely illustrates my point of view. Let me begin by saying the bikers were behaving badly and I would have had no issues with them being charged for blocking traffic and violating other traffic laws. But that does not call for running over somebody and paralysing him.

Why is the banker (red flag) in his Land Rover (red flag) SUV (red flag) so close to the bikers in the beginning? Why is he hitting the biker who braked in front of him? Why is the banker's wife throwing stuff at the bikers? The situation was somewhat contained in the beginning, with the worst thing happening being a mirror broken off the SUV. That doesn't justify riding over other bikes and a person, causing serious injury. Once you run over somebody, of course the mob is going to come after you.

In my world, the banker would have been charged for reckless driving. I would assign 80% of the blame on the banker. Instead the media made him out to be a helpless victim.

 

[RhondaHonda]

What happened before this? Why was a guy walking back towards him in traffic? Lots of things the video doesn’t show. If 100+ bikers stop in front of me and my spouse/family, possibly because I made an error that upset them, I’m not waiting around either.

 

[brages]

Context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Stuntz_gang_assault

 

[ctechbob]

"Lien said that he struck the bike from behind, stopped his vehicle, and was quickly surrounded by bikers, who began attacking his SUV. He testified that he feared for his life."

They ended up convicting 11 bikers.

You don't mess around with mobs of people when there's just a couple of you, even if you're in a car. If you surround me and my family in a threatening manner, you and your bike are getting flattened by an F150. And I will continue to run over every single one of you until I reach a safe space. Deadly force is authorized all day long in a case like that.

This is far from a 'traffic incident'. This is a mob of of bikers/thugs/wannabe 1%er's (look it up if you don't know) thinking they own the road, acting like complete morons, and then getting mad when their actions cause an issue that they then go on and choose violence over an incident that THEY caused.

 

[clinebarger]

Why bring up the fact he was a banker driving a Land Rover?

 

[Pablo]

Why bring up the fact he was a banker driving a Land Rover?

I quit there as I tried to read his point of view without bias and perhaps some knowledge to be gained

 

[SC Maintenance]

Again, only seeing the video and not knowing what happened before - I see this very differently. Aggressively blocking someone on the highway is an immanent threat, and attempt to escape by any means is to me acceptable. If I were sitting on the jury that is. I wasn't there so I don't know what I would have done myself.

What was the reason for the dispute to begin with. What was the outcome of this event?

 

[ctechbob]

Let me begin by saying the bikers were behaving badly and I would have had no issues with them being charged for blocking traffic and violating other traffic laws.

They were behaving as a gang or a mob. Here, let me define those for you:

So they're a group out there breaking laws (traffic laws), so yes, they are a gang.

But that does not call for running over somebody and paralysing him.

You're right, he had every right to end their threats by killing him instead of just running him over.

Why is the banker (red flag) in his Land Rover (red flag) SUV (red flag) so close to the bikers in the beginning?

They were close to him. He's driving down the road like a normal person and they were surrounding him.

Why is he hitting the biker who braked in front of him?

The biker stopped in front of him, guess which stops faster, a bike or a Land Rover....

Why is the banker's wife throwing stuff at the bikers?

Stupid, but she's trying to defend them from the mob/gang.

The situation was somewhat contained in the beginning, with the worst thing happening being a mirror broken off the SUV. That doesn't justify riding over other bikes and a person, causing serious injury.

So, its ok if I threateningly break your stuff with me and my 500 friends? You'd be cool with that if we all surrounded you, yelling at you and just knocked the mirror off your car? You wouldn't think we might go further?

Once you run over somebody, of course the mob is going to come after you.

Doesn't make them right. It makes them a mob/gang doing mob/gang things.

In my world, the banker would have been charged for reckless driving. I would assign 80% of the blame on the banker. Instead the media made him out to be a helpless victim.

Good thing we don't live in your world.

In mine I would have arrested everyone on a bike that was even close to that car and charged every one of them with attempted murder or assault.

You're trying to victimize the aggressors in this case, that will just embolden other idiots to do the same thing.

--Edit--

Just another thing to add on top. They forced him to come to a stop. That is false imprisonment, which is a felony most everywhere. So add that to the stack of reasons to run over someone.

 

[George7941]

Why bring up the fact he was a banker driving a Land Rover?

I am painting with a very broad brush but, in general, LandRover, SUV,(BMW, Mercedes) drivers tend to be aggrresive and arrogant.

 

[ctechbob]

I am painting with a very broad brush but, in general, LandRover, SUV,(BMW, Mercedes) drivers tend to be aggrresive and arrogant.

*shakes head*

Seriously? That's what you're hanging this train of thought on?

 

[wings&wheels]

Funny, some see Banker and Land Rover as "red flags", while I tend to view the presence of certain groups of idiots* on sport bikes as a rather large "red flag".

"Land Rover", "Banker", envy much?



*notably a small percentage of m/c riders.

 

[ATex7239]

In my world the bikers would have been run over or thrown some ~1000 ft per second lead. Or possibly both. They were in the wrong 100% IMO. Even if the SUV driver had done something to them prior the law allows for self protection not revenge.

 

[Wylie6G72]

You're trying to victimize the aggressors in this case, that will just embolden other idiots to do the same thing.

Thank you for making all of these excellent points. Thank you especially for this one. One of the biggest problems we have in society right now.

 

[ctechbob]

In my world the bikers would have been run over or thrown some ~1000 ft per second lead. Or possibly both. They were in the wrong 100% IMO. Even if the SUV driver had done something to them prior the law allows for self protection not revenge.

My big problem with that is. I don't carry enough lead....plus what's downrange.

My car would already be borked, might as well Leroy Jenkins it and just get the ones close in until you get to a safe spot or get away from them.

 

[ATex7239]

My big problem with that is. I don't carry enough lead....plus what's downrange.

My car would already be borked, might as well Leroy Jenkins it and just get the ones close in until you get to a safe spot or get away from them.

People like that won’t stick around when they lose the advantage. There were a few with some balls and the rest were just watching. When the aggressors started to open the door and started bashing on the window - full send through the window. That’s my 2 cents.

 

[ctechbob]

People like that won’t stick around when they lose the advantage. There were a few with some balls and the rest were just watching. When the aggressors started to open the door and started bashing on the window - full send through the window. That’s my 2 cents.

Ohh, to be clear I wasn't saying just run away. Just that it would be a combination of the two with foot to the floor getting me some distance and time to make a better decision on who needed to be leaking.

 

[SC Maintenance]

So I dug around and found some more, for those interested.

Summary - 11 of the bikers were convicted of something, mostly assault, including one undercover LEO who was part of the "gang" and was given 2 years.

Another report said lots of other people testified as to this gangs behavior during the same time - including banging on peoples cars as they passed, and almost hitting a mother and child in a crosswalk.

The one injured cyclist was driving on a revoked license, and had been charged with driving on a revoked license once before.

I really don't think, given all the facts, you can have any sympathy for the gang at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Stuntz_gang_assault

 

[Mainia]

Bikers 101% in the wrong, Male ego, anger and adrenaline got the best of them. Biker gang decided wolf pack or piranha action was necessary. They cornered the driving into a you or them scenario, If I am on a jury every biker is guilty for participating in what they did. I am surprised when they finally pinned him in traffic he did not back over them. If he did back over them I would still vote in the jury BIKERS 101% guilty. The driver goes free. I bet 70% of them in 2013 had cell phones, just follow him until the cops can get him.

To show how stupid the bikers were, they all lined up behind an AWD V-8 just minutes AFTER he had to drive over a couple of guys that pinned him in and threaten his and his family's life. How STUPID do you have to be lining up behind that truck???

 

[BobsArmory]

Shenanigans like that are a good way to get shot.

 

[Mainia]

My big problem with that is. I don't carry enough lead....plus what's downrange.

My car would already be borked, might as well Leroy Jenkins it and just get the ones close in until you get to a safe spot or get away from them.

You are not getting away from 30 criminal bikers on crotch rockets unless you hit the 4WD sand pits. But looking at the video again, some where enduros with street tires or semi-noobs.