I Hate ABS

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Just pull the fuse to disable the system...


The dashes on some vehicles light up like Christmas trees when you do this!

Originally Posted By: ClarkB
I don't understand how this can be. How many times a second can ABS pump the brakes? 10? 20? Unless you're related to Thumper I'm doubting you can pump the brakes that fast.


In snow and dirt you'll stop best by locking the tires up and allowing them to dig in. What is the purpose of pumping the brakes, anyway? If you want to brake, brake. If the wheels lock up and you don't want them to, let off the brakes a little. If you want to steer, stop braking.

Originally Posted By: chrome
One extra thought. I know some of you pull the ABS fuse to disable ABS. If you happen to be involved in an accident, and the insurance company finds out your have intentionally disabled the ABS (a safety equipment), I wonder if your claims will be approved?


You could just blow the fuse and claim ignorance if it ever came up. Nobody could prove that you did it.

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Not even close. I have disabled the ABS in the TL and actually measured stopping distances both with and without.


My buddy and I did some tests with his '04 Dodge 3500 on snow. It stopped much better with the ABS disabled; by a full second from 80 km/hr.

 

[parimento1]

I had a 97 Mazda 626, and I agree, the ABS worked great on that car (although I had to have the whole ABS system replaced). Mazdas in general have great brakes with great feel and power. However, Mazda's have not been so reliable for me.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
You could just blow the fuse and claim ignorance if it ever came up. Nobody could prove that you did it.

I like how you think ahead.

 

[John K]

One site says ABS pumps up to 15 times a second. I thought it might be even more that that.

From Wipipedia:

Efficacy

A 2003 Australian study[6] by Monash University Accident Research Centre found that ABS:

* Reduced the risk of multiple vehicle crashes by 18 percent,
* Reduced the risk of run-off-road crashes by 35 percent.

On high-traction surfaces such as bitumen, or concrete, many (though not all) ABS-equipped cars are able to attain braking distances better (i.e. shorter) than those that would be easily possible without the benefit of ABS. In real world conditions even an alert, skilled driver without ABS would find it difficult, even through the use of techniques like threshold braking, to match or improve on the performance of a typical driver with a modern ABS-equipped vehicle. ABS reduces chances of crashing, and/or the severity of impact. The recommended technique for non-expert drivers in an ABS-equipped car, in a typical full-braking emergency, is to press the brake pedal as firmly as possible and, where appropriate, to steer around obstructions. In such situations, ABS will significantly reduce the chances of a skid and subsequent loss of control.

In gravel, sand and deep snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quickly. ABS prevents this from occurring. Some ABS calibrations reduce this problem by slowing the cycling time, thus letting the wheels repeatedly briefly lock and unlock. The primary benefit of ABS on such surfaces is to increase the ability of the driver to maintain control of the car rather than go into a skid — though loss of control remains more likely on soft surfaces like gravel or slippery surfaces like snow or ice. On a very slippery surface such as sheet ice or gravel, it is possible to lock multiple wheels at once, and this can defeat ABS (which relies on comparing all four wheels, and detecting individual wheels skidding). Availability of ABS relieves most drivers from learning threshold braking.

A June 1999 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) study found that ABS increased stopping distances on loose gravel by an average of 22 percent.[7]

According to the NHTSA,

"AB

 

[John K]

ABS was first used on aircraft in 1929!

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
A good ABS will beat a good driver any day.


It's a question of what the contest is. No human can modulate the pedal as quickly as ABS can, but a driver skilled at threshold braking will stop faster than ABS. On loose surfaces, even an average driver usually will stop faster.

 

[chrome]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Just pull the fuse to disable the system...


The dashes on some vehicles light up like Christmas trees when you do this!

Originally Posted By: chrome
One extra thought. I know some of you pull the ABS fuse to disable ABS. If you happen to be involved in an accident, and the insurance company finds out your have intentionally disabled the ABS (a safety equipment), I wonder if your claims will be approved?


You could just blow the fuse and claim ignorance if it ever came up. Nobody could prove that you did it.


Can you claim ignorance when a disabled ABS lights up a warning light on your instrument panel? Your user manual will have the standard warning/disclaimer of "you need to bring your car to the dealer and have that fixed". If you didn't, isn't the liability back onto you?

 

[StevieC]

Could have happened on your way to the dealer to have it checked out when the accident happened...

God I'm crooked eh?

 

[John K]

Think the insurance company would ask you to return you discount for having ABS?

 

[Buffman]

I'll take my ABS over a Non ABS car in snowy winter ice conditions. I'm not brake expert, but I'm fairly good with threshold braking. Even sometimes your brian goes dead and just mashes that peddle to the floor, even though you want to modulate them. That's how the ranger hit a rock on the side of the road. I guess better that than the stop sign. Luckily I was almost stopped so no damage

 

[ikeepmychevytoo]

ABS is no substitute for good brakes, tires and well designed balanced suspension/steering. This is a system. There are many basic priorities in the whole system before it comes to the antiblocking detail. ABS is well known to increase the stopping distances and with quicker "mal-designs" margins could be wider.

 

[CrAlt]

The ABS in my 05 ford work truck are horrible in snow/ice. It seems like if one tire slips my whole braking power is backed off to the other 3. The truck will roll right threw stop signs with 2 tires on perfectly dry pavement. One time when it was doing this i jumped on the parking brake and the truck stopped instantly.

My dart with its 4wheel drum brakes and pizza cutter 14" tires stops better in snow and ice.

 

[parimento1]

CrAlt: AMEN, my car behaves like your truck.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: CrAlt
The ABS in my 05 ford work truck are horrible in snow/ice. It seems like if one tire slips my whole braking power is backed off to the other 3. The truck will roll right threw stop signs with 2 tires on perfectly dry pavement. One time when it was doing this i jumped on the parking brake and the truck stopped instantly.

My dart with its 4wheel drum brakes and pizza cutter 14" tires stops better in snow and ice.

This situation is where ABS should help the most, but I imagine Ford found that if the tires with traction were allowed to brake hard it would require the driver to do some steering corrections to prevent a spin...
So they'd rather reduce all skill level drivers to a passenger and not have a chance to stop at all...

Also I think your dart did better in the snow because of the pizza cutter tires and the low power drum brakes! Easier to modulate I'm sure.
Ian

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
A good ABS will beat a good driver any day.


Not even close. I have disabled the ABS in the TL and actually measured stopping distances both with and without.


Maybe the TL doesn't have a 'good' ABS.

 

[firemachine69]

It depends. I sincerely doubt the ABS in your car is "slower" than your foot.

HOWEVER, on my bus with my air-brakes, the ABS is [censored], and only pulses once every twenty feet, I can threshold and pump my brakes faster than any automated system ever allows (I stopped about 50 feet shorter when we did the winter driving technical portion of my training). Of course, this puts an extreme level of faith in my air compressor, as you can go through air pretty quickly by pumping the brakes.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: chrome
Can you claim ignorance when a disabled ABS lights up a warning light on your instrument panel?


I just noticed that this morning. I was going to call the dealership to make an appointment later today!

Originally Posted By: John K
Think the insurance company would ask you to return you discount for having ABS?


We don't have that here. How much of a discount do you get for having ABS?

 

[Kestas]

It's interesting that the insurance aspect of ABS has been brought up. Studies by insurance companies have shown that the presence of ABS does not make a car safer and less likely to get into an accident. Some of the thoughts that explain this are the fact that normally a car with ABS can stop quicker than non-ABS cars, making them more prone to be rear-ended in a panic stop situation. Also, there is a disturbing trend that many drivers who own a car loaded with modern safety equipment (better suspensions, skid control, and ABS) have more confidence on the road with aggressive driving behavior, making them more prone to take risks while driving.

Basically, every time us engineers bust our butts and make a car safer, the average driver feels emboldened to take more risks on the road, resulting in no net gain with safety on the road.

 

[01rangerxl]

Yep, the fact that a human is behind the wheel is the most dangerous aspect of any car.

 

[Throckmorton]

4 channel ABS works okay. I think it's the old 2 channel systems that are problematic - especially if you have rear drums and are driving a pickup or suv.