I bet they put it next to their top speed limiter cutout switch.
yah 200th post
yah 200th post
I Hate ABS
- Thread starter parimento1
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Yeah, the speed limiters on these trucks are ridiculous. The factory tires aren't up to high speeds.
Interestingly, my 2001 with a steel driveshaft was limited to 97 MPH, whereas my 2002 with a 1 piece aluminum driveshaft is limited to about 90 MPH. I'd think the 2002's driveshaft would be better balanced and do better at higher speeds (just speculation), but I guess Ford had their reasons. The 2001 had Firestone Wilderness tires stock, and the 2002 had Continentals stock. Same gears, but the 2002 is an automatic V6.
Interestingly, my 2001 with a steel driveshaft was limited to 97 MPH, whereas my 2002 with a 1 piece aluminum driveshaft is limited to about 90 MPH. I'd think the 2002's driveshaft would be better balanced and do better at higher speeds (just speculation), but I guess Ford had their reasons. The 2001 had Firestone Wilderness tires stock, and the 2002 had Continentals stock. Same gears, but the 2002 is an automatic V6.
todd, don't take it personally, but you've raised far too many questions in my mind:
Originally Posted By: another Todd
If you "know" how to drive, then ABS is craap!...
As has been noted by many comedians, there is one thing that people of all nationalities have in common: they all think they are great drivers!
Originally Posted By: another Todd
...I have almost been in two accidents due to ABS releasing my brakes and taking too long to reapply them...
I don't understand how this can be. How many times a second can ABS pump the brakes? 10? 20? Unless you're related to Thumper I'm doubting you can pump the brakes that fast.
I'm curious if anyone has actually been in an accident that can be attributed to ABS doing what it is supposed to do and that action, as controlled by the various sensors on the car, has resulted in an accident?
Originally Posted By: another Todd
...Sometimes you just need to skid a little to shift the weight of the vehicle so that you can make an evasive maneuver effectively. ABS won't allow it.
Wait, isn't the design of ABS to allow the brakes to slow you down and allow you to steer at the same time? Wouldn't you rather steer around an accident than skid? And if you're in slippery conditions, how are you going to control the skid? In slippery conditions, you have no choice but going what direction your vehicle is pointed.
Clark
Originally Posted By: another Todd
If you "know" how to drive, then ABS is craap!...
As has been noted by many comedians, there is one thing that people of all nationalities have in common: they all think they are great drivers!
Originally Posted By: another Todd
...I have almost been in two accidents due to ABS releasing my brakes and taking too long to reapply them...
I don't understand how this can be. How many times a second can ABS pump the brakes? 10? 20? Unless you're related to Thumper I'm doubting you can pump the brakes that fast.
I'm curious if anyone has actually been in an accident that can be attributed to ABS doing what it is supposed to do and that action, as controlled by the various sensors on the car, has resulted in an accident?
Originally Posted By: another Todd
...Sometimes you just need to skid a little to shift the weight of the vehicle so that you can make an evasive maneuver effectively. ABS won't allow it.
Wait, isn't the design of ABS to allow the brakes to slow you down and allow you to steer at the same time? Wouldn't you rather steer around an accident than skid? And if you're in slippery conditions, how are you going to control the skid? In slippery conditions, you have no choice but going what direction your vehicle is pointed.
Clark
ABS have saved my arse many times on road and it does offer a momentary vibratory leg massage. Gotta love 4 wheel ABS. But it sucks when it comes to offroading, where it ends up locking up the wheels, losing traction. It has two fuses to disable front or rear or both ABS systems.
JTK
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Originally Posted By: ClarkB
todd, don't take it personally, but you've raised far too many questions in my mind..
C'mon Clark. Those California dudes are expert stunt drivers. REALLY good in the snow covered roads too.
Joel
todd, don't take it personally, but you've raised far too many questions in my mind..
C'mon Clark. Those California dudes are expert stunt drivers. REALLY good in the snow covered roads too.
Joel
It's not even about being a good or bad driver its about all of a sudden having ABS take over and you go from slowing down fine to not slowing down at all basically because of the ABS. I think they are overly sensitive, because there is no "brain" that can take into account special situations, like if one wheel loses tractions momentarily, it turns on the system and start doing all this crazy stuff, even if it is not necessary. I wish ABS could brake each wheel individually but it cannot.
Originally Posted By: parimento1
I wish ABS could brake each wheel individually but it cannot.
Yes, it can. Most newer cars have 4 channel ABS, which can brake individual wheels. Many people don't seem to like ABS, but forget often times, it is an integrated system with the traction control and stability control.
One extra thought. I know some of you pull the ABS fuse to disable ABS. If you happen to be involved in an accident, and the insurance company finds out your have intentionally disabled the ABS (a safety equipment), I wonder if your claims will be approved? Worse yet, what if someone was badly injured in the accident? If it goes to court for claims, how well would "I can brake better than the ABS" hold up in court?
I wish ABS could brake each wheel individually but it cannot.
Yes, it can. Most newer cars have 4 channel ABS, which can brake individual wheels. Many people don't seem to like ABS, but forget often times, it is an integrated system with the traction control and stability control.
One extra thought. I know some of you pull the ABS fuse to disable ABS. If you happen to be involved in an accident, and the insurance company finds out your have intentionally disabled the ABS (a safety equipment), I wonder if your claims will be approved? Worse yet, what if someone was badly injured in the accident? If it goes to court for claims, how well would "I can brake better than the ABS" hold up in court?
yup, that is the exact reason I have not disabled mine. I do not want to get into a court battle in case of an accident.
I agree that the ABS system can be annoying at times, you may under certain conditons(snow) take longer to stop but you will stop straight. That I can deal with.
I do have another situation that does bother me, though. On perfectly dry pavement you can come to a stop while cresting a sharp hill (or rough pavement!) and you'll lose braking power for a few feet because a tire or 2 are lighter in weight with the car coming over the hill (or slipping on rough pavement) and the ABS can feel the slip and BAM you got a 2-3 sec delay of full stopping power. Scared me a couple times.
I do have another situation that does bother me, though. On perfectly dry pavement you can come to a stop while cresting a sharp hill (or rough pavement!) and you'll lose braking power for a few feet because a tire or 2 are lighter in weight with the car coming over the hill (or slipping on rough pavement) and the ABS can feel the slip and BAM you got a 2-3 sec delay of full stopping power. Scared me a couple times.
The worst combination is ABS, auto transmission, and crummy tires. I have ABS on my pickup but also have a manual transmission, so I can downshift / engine brake if needed in snow and gravel. Fair number of hills around here so engine braking is nice to have. I run studded snow tires in the winter but still need chains sometimes, mainly because of the hills.
I recall a review of pickups a few years back, where the reviewers were having trouble getting good stopping distances out of one truck as it didn't have 4 wheel ABs and the tires kept locking up. These are people who do lots of reviews and lots of maximum stopping tests.
I recall a review of pickups a few years back, where the reviewers were having trouble getting good stopping distances out of one truck as it didn't have 4 wheel ABs and the tires kept locking up. These are people who do lots of reviews and lots of maximum stopping tests.
Originally Posted By: chrome
Originally Posted By: parimento1
I wish ABS could brake each wheel individually but it cannot.
Yes, it can. Most newer cars have 4 channel ABS, which can brake individual wheels. Many people don't seem to like ABS, but forget often times, it is an integrated system with the traction control and stability control.
One extra thought. I know some of you pull the ABS fuse to disable ABS. If you happen to be involved in an accident, and the insurance company finds out your have intentionally disabled the ABS (a safety equipment), I wonder if your claims will be approved? Worse yet, what if someone was badly injured in the accident? If it goes to court for claims, how well would "I can brake better than the ABS" hold up in court?
Correct. Early ABS systems were 3 channel: LF, RF and both rears together. Now, I believe, all ABS systems made today are 4 channel, atleast I can speak for GM applications. Programming has gotten better too and that's why you see Traction control systems and stability systems all tied with the ABS. Early systems didn't have the ability to monitor things like steering wheel angle and accelometers (spelling) to help with their calculations on how much or little ABS to use. Today's cars know more from the vast amount of sensors on the car so ABS has a much better chance to work right given the situation.
Originally Posted By: parimento1
I wish ABS could brake each wheel individually but it cannot.
Yes, it can. Most newer cars have 4 channel ABS, which can brake individual wheels. Many people don't seem to like ABS, but forget often times, it is an integrated system with the traction control and stability control.
One extra thought. I know some of you pull the ABS fuse to disable ABS. If you happen to be involved in an accident, and the insurance company finds out your have intentionally disabled the ABS (a safety equipment), I wonder if your claims will be approved? Worse yet, what if someone was badly injured in the accident? If it goes to court for claims, how well would "I can brake better than the ABS" hold up in court?
Correct. Early ABS systems were 3 channel: LF, RF and both rears together. Now, I believe, all ABS systems made today are 4 channel, atleast I can speak for GM applications. Programming has gotten better too and that's why you see Traction control systems and stability systems all tied with the ABS. Early systems didn't have the ability to monitor things like steering wheel angle and accelometers (spelling) to help with their calculations on how much or little ABS to use. Today's cars know more from the vast amount of sensors on the car so ABS has a much better chance to work right given the situation.
I think there is ABS and ABS, when GM first starting putting in on Cavaliers we test drove one and it pulsed maybe 5 times a second on gravel. It didn't seem very refined anyways.
Next we had a 94 Mazda 626 V6 with ABS and it worked very well on all conditions. Even though they tell you to mash the brake pedal with ABS I think it works better when you threshold brake, applying more force until you hear a click or two from the ABS system and then hold the pedal there, the tires should spend more time at maximum grip then the rapid locking and releasing of mashed pedal ABS. The mazda seemed to have amazing brakes in general and the only time I recall the ABS kicking in was on snowcovered roads and I was threshold braking.
Ian
Next we had a 94 Mazda 626 V6 with ABS and it worked very well on all conditions. Even though they tell you to mash the brake pedal with ABS I think it works better when you threshold brake, applying more force until you hear a click or two from the ABS system and then hold the pedal there, the tires should spend more time at maximum grip then the rapid locking and releasing of mashed pedal ABS. The mazda seemed to have amazing brakes in general and the only time I recall the ABS kicking in was on snowcovered roads and I was threshold braking.
Ian
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think there is ABS and ABS, when GM first starting putting in on Cavaliers we test drove one and it pulsed maybe 5 times a second on gravel. It didn't seem very refined anyways.
Next we had a 94 Mazda 626 V6 with ABS and it worked very well on all conditions. Even though they tell you to mash the brake pedal with ABS I think it works better when you threshold brake, applying more force until you hear a click or two from the ABS system and then hold the pedal there, the tires should spend more time at maximum grip then the rapid locking and releasing of mashed pedal ABS. The mazda seemed to have amazing brakes in general and the only time I recall the ABS kicking in was on snowcovered roads and I was threshold braking.
Ian
Theoretically, I'd agree with this. Alas, I suspect that most drivers are not well versed enough to work the system by modulating pedal force so as to keep themselves just short of the ABS activation threshold. So I'd advise, at least generally, that drivers just mash the pedal as hard as they can, and use the wheel to steer clear of trouble. For those of us who understand the systems, and have the ability to do better, of course, that makes more sense.
My vote is to use ABS, period. No system is perfect, and if you operate in an environment where you often find the limits of ABS (snowy roads as the OP described), then perhaps you MIGHT consider a switch or pulling the fuse, but for the vast majority, keep it active.
I think there is ABS and ABS, when GM first starting putting in on Cavaliers we test drove one and it pulsed maybe 5 times a second on gravel. It didn't seem very refined anyways.
Next we had a 94 Mazda 626 V6 with ABS and it worked very well on all conditions. Even though they tell you to mash the brake pedal with ABS I think it works better when you threshold brake, applying more force until you hear a click or two from the ABS system and then hold the pedal there, the tires should spend more time at maximum grip then the rapid locking and releasing of mashed pedal ABS. The mazda seemed to have amazing brakes in general and the only time I recall the ABS kicking in was on snowcovered roads and I was threshold braking.
Ian
Theoretically, I'd agree with this. Alas, I suspect that most drivers are not well versed enough to work the system by modulating pedal force so as to keep themselves just short of the ABS activation threshold. So I'd advise, at least generally, that drivers just mash the pedal as hard as they can, and use the wheel to steer clear of trouble. For those of us who understand the systems, and have the ability to do better, of course, that makes more sense.
My vote is to use ABS, period. No system is perfect, and if you operate in an environment where you often find the limits of ABS (snowy roads as the OP described), then perhaps you MIGHT consider a switch or pulling the fuse, but for the vast majority, keep it active.
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
A good ABS will beat a good driver any day.
Not even close. I have disabled the ABS in the TL and actually measured stopping distances both with and without.
The one place I like ABS is when one wheel is on a slippery surface and one has full traction. It's also ok when entering a corner a little too hot and having an inside front tire try and lock.
Otherwise I like the non-ABS cars better for 90% of my driving.
FWIW, the TL has 4 channel ABS but when traction control is turned off, it goes into 3 channel. Not sure why that is.
A good ABS will beat a good driver any day.
Not even close. I have disabled the ABS in the TL and actually measured stopping distances both with and without.
The one place I like ABS is when one wheel is on a slippery surface and one has full traction. It's also ok when entering a corner a little too hot and having an inside front tire try and lock.
Otherwise I like the non-ABS cars better for 90% of my driving.
FWIW, the TL has 4 channel ABS but when traction control is turned off, it goes into 3 channel. Not sure why that is.
I have it on pretty good faith that the handbrake being "on" disables ABS, at least on what I've driven. Naturally one would want to 1) test it for themselves, 2) pull only one click to light the "Brake" light and send the computer the message, and 3) test it for themselves.
GM had a problem with short people (women mostly) and blazers, they had the seat "too far back" and when ABS activated the brake pedal sank a few inches and the drivers' legs couldn't stretch that far.
The fuse pulling crowd may want to consider that ABS may have taken the place of load-sensing proportioning valves especially on pickup trucks.
GM had a problem with short people (women mostly) and blazers, they had the seat "too far back" and when ABS activated the brake pedal sank a few inches and the drivers' legs couldn't stretch that far.
The fuse pulling crowd may want to consider that ABS may have taken the place of load-sensing proportioning valves especially on pickup trucks.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
The one place I like ABS is when one wheel is on a slippery surface and one has full traction.
On icy roads I find that this is the hardest to mentally deal with in my cars without ABS. The tires on ice have locked, you lose some braking power but you have to press the brakes harder to stop using only the two tires on surface with traction. It goes against your instinct to back off on the brakes. Mostly this is avoidable by picking a better part of the road to drive on but it happens once or twice a winter.
In the winter though I'd rather have snowtires than ABS, stability control, etc, if I had to choose between them.
Ian
The one place I like ABS is when one wheel is on a slippery surface and one has full traction.
On icy roads I find that this is the hardest to mentally deal with in my cars without ABS. The tires on ice have locked, you lose some braking power but you have to press the brakes harder to stop using only the two tires on surface with traction. It goes against your instinct to back off on the brakes. Mostly this is avoidable by picking a better part of the road to drive on but it happens once or twice a winter.
In the winter though I'd rather have snowtires than ABS, stability control, etc, if I had to choose between them.
Ian
I have experienced the horrible feeling of having the ABS kick in on ice and losing all sense of braking ability. It might be hard to believe, but a few weeks ago I was sliding toward someone's back bumper with the ABS chattering away and I was already calculating my deductible payments. Finally, in desperation, I started pumping like they taught us in driver's ed in the 70's and finally got stopped inches from the car in front. Is it possible the ABS would have saved me as well? Absolutely, but I "felt" more in control pumping.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think there is ABS and ABS, when GM first starting putting in on Cavaliers we test drove one and it pulsed maybe 5 times a second on gravel. It didn't seem very refined anyways.
Next we had a 94 Mazda 626 V6 with ABS and it worked very well on all conditions. Even though they tell you to mash the brake pedal with ABS I think it works better when you threshold brake, applying more force until you hear a click or two from the ABS system and then hold the pedal there, the tires should spend more time at maximum grip then the rapid locking and releasing of mashed pedal ABS. The mazda seemed to have amazing brakes in general and the only time I recall the ABS kicking in was on snowcovered roads and I was threshold braking.
Ian
I'll second the point that some cars do ABS much better than others. I never had an issue with the ABS on my '00 Impala but the ABS on my '06 Taurus is garbage. Last summer the ABS tripped during a panic stop on dry, clean pavement and caused me to bump the car in front of me. I have no doubt that had the tires just locked like I wanted I would have gotten stopped in time. Conversely, during this latest round of snow and ice in Chicago I have had the wheels lock without any help from the ABS at all several times. I had to do the brake pedal dance to keep the car straight.
I think there is ABS and ABS, when GM first starting putting in on Cavaliers we test drove one and it pulsed maybe 5 times a second on gravel. It didn't seem very refined anyways.
Next we had a 94 Mazda 626 V6 with ABS and it worked very well on all conditions. Even though they tell you to mash the brake pedal with ABS I think it works better when you threshold brake, applying more force until you hear a click or two from the ABS system and then hold the pedal there, the tires should spend more time at maximum grip then the rapid locking and releasing of mashed pedal ABS. The mazda seemed to have amazing brakes in general and the only time I recall the ABS kicking in was on snowcovered roads and I was threshold braking.
Ian
I'll second the point that some cars do ABS much better than others. I never had an issue with the ABS on my '00 Impala but the ABS on my '06 Taurus is garbage. Last summer the ABS tripped during a panic stop on dry, clean pavement and caused me to bump the car in front of me. I have no doubt that had the tires just locked like I wanted I would have gotten stopped in time. Conversely, during this latest round of snow and ice in Chicago I have had the wheels lock without any help from the ABS at all several times. I had to do the brake pedal dance to keep the car straight.
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
A good ABS will beat a good driver any day.
Exactly, I think there are some who don't know how to use ABS. I wouldn't want to be w/o it.
A good ABS will beat a good driver any day.
Exactly, I think there are some who don't know how to use ABS. I wouldn't want to be w/o it.
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