I had a collision today

[Master ACiD]

i ran a friend of mines 2002 camry today and i had the abs shuddering from 70 all the way down to 0. even if i was at 25 and stomped the petal the abs would engage and stop me to zero.

i know a camry isn't an avalon, but i don't think you're avalon disengages abs under 30. what about slick conditions? ice, hydro plaining on water, mud, etc. those conditions exist between 0 and 30mph.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: c502cid
You saying about leaving high beams on tells volumes about your experience level.


It's basic courtesy to turn off the high beams when there is oncoming traffic or if there is traffic in front of you.

If you got into an accident with another car, there was other traffic around and you were being rude by not turning your high beams off. In the worst case, that can blind other drivers leading to an accident.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
I trusted that the government set speed limit would give me adequate time to properly respond to other vehicles (so long as I maintain an adequate distance between my Avalon's front and another car's rear provided there is another car), even when vehicles are at a complete stop, in any circumstance. I never thought that it would be set too high.


You are required to reduce your speed for traffic or weather conditions, even if it means driving slower than the speed limit.

If you couldn't see clearly what was in front of you, you should have slowed down, either by hitting the brakes or taking your foot off the gas pedal and "covering" the brake pedal with it so you could apply the brake pedal that much quicker if needed.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Throckmorton
I'm pretty sure he's thinking of either traction control or stability control, not ABS.


Traction control/stability control is active at speeds below 30MPH. Traction control is active when you're accelerating from a dead stop in snow, for example.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
I doubt that the repair costs will exceed $4000 and my car's resale value prior to the collision was a little over $5000 earlier this year. I would expect the insurance company to pay for the repairs rather than declare my Avalon to be a total loss.

Galves is a very well respected source for wholesale vehicle pricing, and I doubt that your Avalon is worth more than $2500 when appraised using the Galves guide. Usually, if you take the "fair" trade-in value with KBB and subtract 5-10%, that's the value that Galves would give you. A quick inquiry on KBB turns up about $2600...

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
I doubt that the repair costs will exceed $4000 and my car's resale value prior to the collision was a little over $5000 earlier this year. I would expect the insurance company to pay for the repairs rather than declare my Avalon to be a total loss.

Galves is a very well respected source for wholesale vehicle pricing, and I doubt that your Avalon is worth more than $2500 when appraised using the Galves guide. Usually, if you take the "fair" trade-in value with KBB and subtract 5-10%, that's the value that Galves would give you. A quick inquiry on KBB turns up about $2600...


Prior to the collision, my Avalon fit into the good category, which earlier in the year showed that it was worth significantly more. Right now, it is indicating $3,300. Regardless of that, my father had 1991 Corolla that was in a collision (a truck side-swipped it) with similar damage several years ago. Geico paid for the repair costs. I expect them to do the same.

By the way, people say that this is worth that and that is worth this all of the time, but regardless of what they say, it does not cost that or this to get a new car. It costs several times that or this. As far as I am concerned, my car is worth as much as a new vehicle and vica-versa. It does not matter how much it cost to build a new vehicle, it performs the same function of getting me from point A to point B and a year from now, I plan to be driving the same car I was driving yesterday.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
Prior to the collision, my Avalon fit into the good category, which earlier in the year showed that it was worth significantly more. Right now, it is indicating $3,300. Regardless of that, my father had 1991 Corolla that was in a collision (a truck side-swipped it) with similar damage several years ago. Geico paid for the repair costs. I expect them to do the same.

By the way, people say that this is worth that and that is worth this all of the time, but regardless of what they say, it does not cost that or this to get a new car. It costs several times that or this. As far as I am concerned, my car is worth as much as a new vehicle and vica-versa. It does not matter how much it cost to build a new vehicle, it performs the same function of getting me from point A to point B and a year from now, I plan to be driving the same car I was driving yesterday.

Unfortunately, KBB is not a credible source for used car values. It gives owners a false hope that their vehicle is worth a certain amount when it really isn't. Galves gives the best representation of what a vehicle is worth, period, especially for where you live. In addition, Galves does NOT care if your vehicle is in fair, good, excellent, etc condition. As long as it's "clean," then the number it gives you is accurate. Fact is, your car is probably worth between 2-2.5k with Galves, and I doubt that it'll even sell for that much at an auction.

 

[Panzerman]

I have to agree with The Critic, its all about auction prices, A 1995 with over 100,000 isnt worth full coverage insurance, it doesnt matter how nice, if it has a new engine, what upgrades, all that is important is year/milelage/model. Whats worse yet is these poor people who owe money on a car that they total it, Insurance pays off the note and that is it, no car and all the payments they made for nothing, but it happens, insurance companies arent in it cause they care. I never insure a car/truck over 7 years old for full coverage, no matter how nice, how low the miles, you are only setting yourself up. At least the person you hit pulled off the road, these stupid people in Florida, have a accident and they sit there and wont move until the police come and screw up traffic and cause more wrecks, I guess because all the Northern Lawyers come down here to retire and set up side practices and now there are more lawyers then turtles in Florida.

 

[oilyriser]

An old car that gets totalled for $3000 doesn't need to be replaced by a brand new one that costs 8x a much.
The most important thing is to live through the event, and be able to tell about it.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
An old car that gets totalled for $3000 doesn't need to be replaced by a brand new one that costs 8x a much.
The most important thing is to live through the event, and be able to tell about it.


The damage is minor and the car can still move under its own power. My Avalon is not totaled. The only reason it was towed was because the shape of the driver-side front wheel well was altered enough to touch the tire.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
Originally Posted By: oilyriser
An old car that gets totalled for $3000 doesn't need to be replaced by a brand new one that costs 8x a much.
The most important thing is to live through the event, and be able to tell about it.


The damage is minor and the car can still move under its own power. My Avalon is not totaled. The only reason it was towed was because the shape of the driver-side front wheel well was altered enough to touch the tire.

That isn't for you to decide; that's the insurance company's job. What may be considered minor to you may be major to them, especially considering the value of your vehicle.

 

[GMBoy]

I'm still concerned about this guy driving with the hibeams on - maybe that driver he hit just figured they'd put the hibeams out for him....????

 

[moving2]

A couple of things:

1. Sorry to hear of your accident, but glad everyone is ok.

2. Your teacher was incorrect about the ABS disengaging below 30mph. Years of driving on Alaskan ice in several different vehicles has proven otherwise.

3. Cut your high beams when you know you will be encountering other drivers.

4. Assuming that following the posted speed limits will keep you safe isn't safe or smart. You must use your own judgment depending on the road conditions and other factors. Are you telling me you would follow the posted speed limit in a snow storm and assume it is safe? Or coming up on a blind corner or cresting a hill? Didn't think so. In the same way, following the posted speed limit when you have limited visibility of what is ahead of you (due to tree cover, blind corners, etc.) is also not a good idea.

5. It doesn't sound like the brakes were the problem here, so I think a brake upgrade would be going down the wrong path.

6. I've never read such a wordy post in my life!

Example #1:
"I applied pressure to the brake pedal as hard as I could."
=
"I braked as hard as I could."

Example #2:
"If you look at aerial imagery of the intersection of two major highways or a simple map, such a thing would resemble a four petal flower or bow, with the exits/entrances being on the edges of the pedals/ribbon."
=
"It was a cloverleaf intersection."

I think I could rewrite your post using half as many words! Remember: brevity is the essence of wit. Sorry- pet peeve.

 

[bob_ninja]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine

I trusted that the government set speed limit would give me adequate time to properly respond to other vehicles (so long as I maintain an adequate distance between my Avalon's front and another car's rear provided there is another car), even when vehicles are at a complete stop, in any circumstance. I never thought that it would be set too high.


First, here is what I was told at my safety class when I was getting my license. He said something like this:

You are approaching an intersection, have a green light. What do you do? Simply drive through?

Wrong.

Here comes Johny from the right playing with his new stereo, doesn't see red light and hits you from the right side.

The point is you DON'T TRUST ANYTHING (not even signs and traffic lights) You always look and verify that the car that has a red light will REALLY stop. You don't assume.

Now consider this speed sign. It is a piece of metal with a number on it. Rather low tech, right? How much information does a single number convey?????

What is the REAL safe speed to approach at? Well it depends on a number of factors:
- road conditions (wet, ice, snow)
- number and average speed of other vehicles (busy road means lower safe speed)
- rush factor (how stressed are other drivers, are they all in a rush)
etc.

So the "safe speed" number can range from 10 mph to as much as 70 mph. Heck, last winter one day due to ice EVERYONE drove 10 mph on a road that has 55 mph limit, while typical speed is 65 mph. For fun I tried my SUV's 4 wheel drive mode and sped up only to start sliding into the ditch. So even the best tehcnology sometimes doesn't help and safe speed can be far below posted speed limit.

So posted speed limits are very simple devices that have minimum information. They only sas something like this:
"During average/good road conditions and average/low traffic volume, assuming on average well behaved rational drivers it is safe to drive at the speed that doesn't exceed XX"

If any of these conditions are broken then the stated speed limit may not apply.

Therefore keep in mind the limitations of low tech road signs.

 

[bob_ninja]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine

The tires were brand new Michelin MXV4 Energy Plus tires. They were installed on May 19, 2007 when the car had 99,253 miles on it. My last fill-up was on November 8, 2007 when the car had 112,045 miles on it. The tires I had installed were the same tires that Toyota puts on new Toyota Avalons and Camrys; they are also recommended by Consumer Reports in their performance all-season category.


As others stated breaks these days are very powerful. If anything they are TOO powerful. One of my cars doesn't have power breaks but I have no problems.

Your real deffence is simply spacing and appropriate speed for each situation. As you described you had limited visibility. This is the most dangerous situation as you don't know what to expect. So any time visibility is reduced take off 10-20 mph. Also, joining traffic is often tricky/difficult. The rule is this: It is much easier to accelerate from a lower speed then to slow down from a high speed. Therefore, approaching a merge traffic you slow down MORE THAN necessary, then accelerate as needed. In the worst case since you already reduced your speed so much you'll easily be able to stop. Moreover, by slowing down gradually ahead of merge point you present no surprises to cars behind. When you break hard you risk car behind hitting you as well.

Back to your equipment. Again, breaks are fine. Tires are more important. Because breaks are so powerful and tires don't have enough friciton you start skidding, at which point there is a minimal friction resistance and you are slowing down at a far slower rate. You can really see the difference on snow. If you manage with or without ABS to NOT lockup tires and avoid them sliding you'll stop much sooner.

The general all season tires use stronger rubber compound that lasts a long time. The problem is that they have less friciton. More friction means shorter lifespan and longer lifespan means more friciton. So it is a compromise. The tries that offer most frcition (at the cost of a shorter lifespan) are winter/ice tires. The rubber is softer and has a better grip on the road surface - more friction. It is similar to motorcycle racing tires which for that reason last a mere 10K.

So for maximum safety you go with winter/ice tires and pay more for tires and gasoline. Most people don't do that but simply adjust their driving to always have enough breaking distance. Of course, it can be difficult when others keep cutting you off at taking your "safety bubble".

Back to breaks, find a motorcycle rider and ask him about breaking on a bike. You see locking up a tire on a motorcycle is deadly, so we are tought (assuming you take safety classes) how to avoid it. We apply pressure until tire starts to slide then pull back. As soon as you lockup a trie and it slides friciton is gone and in case of a bike you fall down. Of course, cars have 4 tires so consequences are not as extreme. Which is why most people don't appreciate the consequence of locked tires.

Locked tires offer virtually no breaking. So when you hear tires screech you made a mistake. You are breaking too hard. Actually you are breaking less BECAUSE your breaks are too powerful. Again, a lecture on breaking on snow should show you (I didn't take one myself but was told that it is very instructive).

That is why new traction control and ABS systems actually take some breaking control AWAY from driver because we are too slow to react.

So you want to do 2 things. Next time you are shopping for tires pick the softest all season tires. Also, see if there is a safety course that talks about breaking techniques. Other than that, simply reduce your speed BEFORE YOU HAVE TO STOP.

I find people are always impatient and come up close behind me as I slow down more than necessary. But hey it is their problem and most of the time they simply pass me. If they want to risk a collision it is their business, not mine.

 

[oilyriser]

There's a section of raised highway in Toronto, and at the east end where you drive up a ramp to get to it the road curves to the right, and if you're in the right lane, it's impossible to see far ahead enough at 90 km/h to avoid a disabled car that's pulled all the way over to the side. The ramp speed limit is around 60 km/h but everyone goes as fast as they can, since there isn't usually a disabled car around the corner sitting in the that lane.

accidents suck

 

[joatmon]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine

Originally Posted By: joatmon
I would like to comment regarding your brake upgrade.

First, any driver should be aware of his/her vehicle capacities and limitations. You need to drive within the limits of your braking system. My concern is that if you do indeed upgrade your brakes, you may still out drive them.

Until recently, I drove a Suburban. Now that Suburban had very long stopping distances. My wife has an X5 that I drive sometimes and it's brakes are supurb. Know what? I drive these two vehicles in a much different manner keeping in mind the braking characteristics of each.

OK, you had an accident. Sounds like it was avoidable. You were too close to the vehicle in front of you. You couldn't get your Avalon stopped in time. It really doesn't matter if you have ABS or not, or whether the ABS leaves the scene at 30 MPH. The point is, know your vehicle and it's limitations, and drive accordingly.

Safe driving,

Joat


There was no vehicle in front of me until I saw the brake lights. Cars were stopped on the roundabout and tree cover prevented me from seeing them.


Whoa SA!

No one here is your enemy. I see lots of folks giving good, sound advice. Your attitude may go a long way in explaining what happened to you. Please examine your statement: "There was no vehicle in front of me until I saw the brake lights". SA, there WERE cars in front of you, you just didn't see them. Therein lies the problem. You overdrove your sight.

I think if you drop your defensive attitude and reread this thread, you'll go a long way to driving accident free for a long time.

Peace,

Joat

 

[doitmyself]

"There was no vehicle in front of me until I saw the brake lights".



Reminds me of the quote I read on a co-workers accident report:

"I was driving along and that curve in the road just came up out of no where!"

In this case, he rolled a stake bed truck pulling a trailer loaded with a farm tractor. Ouch!

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
The rule is this: It is much easier to accelerate from a lower speed then to slow down from a high speed. Therefore, approaching a merge traffic you slow down MORE THAN necessary, then accelerate as needed.


In my experience, most if not all cars are capable of braking much better than they are capable of accelerating. All the cars I own are capable of slowing down from 60MPH to 40MPH a lot faster than they can accelerate from 40MPH to 60MPH...

Therefore, the rule I use is this: I will be at or near the posted speed limit of the highway I am merging onto before the acceleration lane ends, preferably well in advance of the acceleration lane ending.

In addition to that, you can often see how fast traffic is going long before you actually merge. You needn't wait until the acceleration lane becomes a merge lane to consider where you are going to position your vehicle relative to other traffic.

Trying to, for example, merge onto I95 at 45MPH, when the speed limit is 65MPH and traffic is flowing that fast if not faster, and the acceleration lane is plenty long that even the most underpowered car can attain 65MPH by the end, simply irritates everyone and can even result in a traffic jam as everyone slams on their brakes for the slow vehicle's entrance onto the highway.

Yet I see drivers do it all the time, in even the most powerful vehicles.

I have even observed the same driver accelerate faster to beat a yellow light than they did to merge onto a highway!

 

[ted s]

just because the speed limit is x, doesnt mean its safe to drive that fast, adjust speed for conditions.