Both susceptible to what? Filters aren't going to clogged from the ferrous debris because most won't catch a lot of it. If a magnet is used, then that makes the loading on the filter even a bit less. Besides, oil filters tested per ISO 4548-12 get loaded with some pretty small particles in the ISO test dust used in the test, so that factors in to how they perform in terms of efficiency and holding capacity across a broad range of particulate sizes.
I got my pair of Filter Magnets installed today.
- Thread starter Carlostrece
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Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
The Filtermag is a prefilter. So very little metal will reach the filter media. How much difference that will make to filter life, I don't know. Probably not a lot because most particles are non ferrous, but it would help the filter last slightly longer, IMO.
My preferred way to increase filter life is to use a longer filter (if a compatible one is available). For my Buick, a compatible longer filter is available.
And it become less efficient. ISO 4548-12 data proves that. Go read the big Ascent thread starting around page 12 if you haven't seen it.
A magnet is going to have caught a lot of debris for it to reach that point. If it reaches that point there is a lot wrong going on in the system to shed that much ferrous material. Again, even it it loaded up so much that it became ineffective, then it caught as much as it could which is way more than if it was never there.
I was responding to the question of, "If the magnet helps the filter isn’t that good?"
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
Agreed. That's what I was referring to earlier.
That's true for magnets in general, especially weak magnets, but Filtermag is orders of magnitude more powerful and larger than any drain plug magnet.
There will never be enough metal in an OCI to overwhelm 1 Filtermag, and I have 2 Filtermags on my oil filter, and I have an extra long oil filter too.
I read that as the magnet is helping the filter in terms of providing better overall filtration to the oil ... not helping the filter last/go longer. Magnets are mainly used to help clean the oil better, not make the oil filter last a bit longer. Most filters are changed out way before they are near fully loaded anyway.
Hopefully he can test and we can find out if there is some impact.
That's the benefit he provided studies for.
Olds394 has only make one post (#68) in this thread, and he didn't mention or link any study.
I'm referring to the video I posted regarding filter magnets.
That wasn't from Olds394 as you claimed referencing his statement of "If the magnet helps the filter isn’t that good?" in post 68. This is getting all twisted and convoluted. And besides, that study is nonsense wrt ICE engines. it might be a valid subject matter in certain industrial filtration systems, etc where very large amounts of ferrous debris in the fluid exists that would actually impact the life of the filter in a meaningful way. Not happening in an ICE oil filter. Magnets in ICE oiling system are there to remove ferrous debris that can add to engine wear over the long run, not to enable the oil filter to be ran longer.
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
I agree mostly, but it might help the filter last slightly longer because Filtermag is a prefilter for ferrous metal particles.
Not enough on an ICE to make anyone say: "Hey, I'm going to run the OCI and oil filter a lot longer now since I have a Filter Mag". Filters without a Filter Mag aren't going to go over the edge because of the ferrous particulate that's say 7u and smaller that it has a harder time catching in the first place. It's all about removing ferrous debris to help reduce engine wear over the long run. Anything that can keep the oil cleaner over an OCI is going in the right direction.
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I'm operating from the assumption we are yet to have evidence that the filter mag does anything meaningful.
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
I think enough evidence has been posted in this thread that strong magnets with enough surface area, high op temp, and in a useful location are helpful in a 3 ways.
Filtermag is strong, has lots of surface area, is mounted in a good location, and has effective op temp range from -40F to 300F. Also photos posted show it catches metal from the oil and holds it to the filter can.
I like it. That's my opinion.
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Not sure how the evidence already presented isn't meaningful.
Jim Fitch at Noria believes the evidence for magnetic separators is clear.
His provenance in the matter is undisputed.
Filtermag claims the devices will achieve between and 1-3 ISO code drops.
Decades of magnetic separator use by dozens of companies, and personal inspection shows they do indeed capture and hold particles.
I have yet to see a compelling argument against them.
Everyone gets to do what they want on their engines.
Things aren't free, so it sounds like a break-even proposition. Could go two ways.
a) If, Filtermag captures particles the filter would have already captured. Then the argument is that it may not have a financial breakeven, if it isn't making meaningful impact to oil cleanliness.
b) If, Filtermag captures particles the filter wouldn't have already captured. Then the math will be if that reduction is enough to justify the financial cost. How much was engine life extended? Am I better off using that money towards buying a bypass filtration system or more frequent OCI instead?
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
Good point. Show me that evidence. So far I've seen several posts showing evidence that supports using magnets. I've seen no posts showing evidence against. I've seen opinions and speculation posted against, but no evidence.
I don't think the argument is really about magnets. I think it's about the enjoyment Carlb gets from playing devil's advocate. No evidence or discussion about magnets will convince him of anything. For him the discussion is about the enjoyment he gets from debating and fencing with others. IMO
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Using a filter magnet or any kind of magnets to remove ferrous debris out of the oil that the oil filter can't is keeping the sump cleaner - nobody can prove that's not true. Yet some people want "evidence" that it "does anything meaningful". FYI - everyone has their own definition of "meaningful". Just like the current debate about oil filter efficiency, which pops up on a regular basis ... some people don't even think filter efficiency actually matters, or that using a more efficient filter to start with will even "do anything meaningful". Yet every decent wear study done proves that there is less engine wear with cleaner oil over the OCI. Some people think that doing things that keep the oil cleaner is meaningful to them simply because the oil is kept cleaner, and cleaner oil always results in some level of reduce engine wear - every wear study concludes that fact. That's enough evidence for the people who believe in the science because the main goad is to have cleaner oil over the OCI, regardless if it can be detected as meaningful from behind the steering wheel.
Obviously engines produce much more ferrous (and non ferrous) debris in the first say 20K miles. It took about that long for my Tacoma to what I'd consider fully broken in and stop loading up the magnetic drain plug noticeably. A magnet removing the ferrous debris was better than not, regardless if I could "detect or measure" any "meaningful" difference without a test program. It kept the oil cleaner ... that's all some people need for it to be meaningful to them. One could flip the narrative and say show the proof that cleaner oil does not result in less wear. I've been waiting for 14 years for someone to post up that official study, lol. If people don't believe doing things to keep the oil cleaner isn't "meaningful" based on their own definition of the word then don't do it, it's their machine.
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BITOG!
