I drove my first electric - 2025 BMW i4 M50

[OVERKILL]

I meant it as a pure EV design vs an EV drivetrain in an ICE vehicle. BMW will release the Neue Klasse soon and Mercedes is changing its EV strategy as well.

I don't think you'll see a "pure EV design" from BMW, or Mercedes, they'll continue to be built on shared platforms for cost effectiveness, though perhaps some finer tuning of the platforms for EV use will take place, but you aren't going to see the Tesla or Rivian-esque dedicated EV platform approach from a company that's still making PHEV's and ICE vehicles, it's simply not cost effective.

I could be wrong of course, but that's what we've been seeing from them so far and it makes sense when viewed through the lens of multiple powertrains being produced.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I don't think you'll see a "pure EV design" from BMW, or Mercedes, they'll continue to be built on shared platforms for cost effectiveness, though perhaps some finer tuning of the platforms for EV use will take place, but you aren't going to see the Tesla or Rivian-esque dedicated EV platform approach from a company that's still making PHEV's and ICE vehicles, it's simply not cost effective.

I could be wrong of course, but that's what we've been seeing from them so far and it makes sense when viewed through the lens of multiple powertrains being produced.

I have been following the Neue Klasse for quite awhile. I've heard pure play EV and I've heard ICE compatible.
Regardless, it should be an improvement over the current ICE-to-EV vehicles from an EV standpoint, and will be amazing. The top dog is slated for 4 motors... Have mercy!

As you point out, shared platforms are cost effective, by definition. But a compromise cannot be optimal. If anyone can bridge the gap, BMW can.

 

[Torrid]

These vehicles not specifically designed as EVs are heavily compromised. They're usually a lot less efficient for one. The design of the chassis for a good efficient design are just so wildly different and it tends to make them much heavier to not be purpose built for the powertrain.

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't make them a bad car. They're probably awesome, but it just shows in the efficiency, handling, and performance numbers. For example the Lucid Air and Porsche Taycan are such monsters because of how they were designed from the ground up to be only EVs.

I have been following the Neue Klasse for quite awhile. I've heard pure play EV and I've heard ICE compatible.
Regardless, it should be an improvement over the current ICE-to-EV vehicles from an EV standpoint, and will be amazing. The top dog is slated for 4 motors... Have mercy!

As you point out, shared platforms are cost effective, by definition. But a compromise cannot be optimal. If anyone can bridge the gap, BMW can.

View attachment 292320

This is growing on me. From this angle the stance is mean and makes me think of this.

 

[OVERKILL]

These vehicles not specifically designed as EVs are heavily compromised. They're usually a lot less efficient for one. The design of the chassis for a good efficient design are just so wildly different and it tends to make them much heavier to not be purpose built for the powertrain.

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't make them a bad car. They're probably awesome, but it just shows in the efficiency, handling, and performance numbers. For example the Lucid Air and Porsche Taycan are such monsters because of how they were designed from the ground up to be only EVs.

This is growing on me. From this angle the stance is mean and makes me think of this.

Ehhhh, KINDA with the Taycan? I mean the J1 platform, shared with the Audi e-tron GT is "technically" an EV platform, but it's part of VAG's MSB platform, which is multi-powertrain.

This means it's really not much different from CLAR.

 

[jghall00]

These vehicles not specifically designed as EVs are heavily compromised. They're usually a lot less efficient for one. The design of the chassis for a good efficient design are just so wildly different and it tends to make them much heavier to not be purpose built for the powertrain.

I was going to disagree, but I pulled up the Edmunds range test and you're correct. The vehicles with the highest range are all on dedicated EV platforms. I initially assumed it was just a failure of the manufacturers to optimize aero on the multi-powertrain vehicles. That could still be a contributing factor, but the EV specific platforms are definitely putting up superior range numbers.

 

[Vercingetorix]

I meant it as a pure EV design vs an EV drivetrain in an ICE vehicle. BMW will release the Neue Klasse soon and Mercedes is changing its EV strategy as well.

Taycan is based on the Panamera and it again is rated the best EV. So it’s not a proper EV?
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65520209/porsche-taycan-ev-of-the-year-2025/
Edit: Didn’t see the previous replies.

 

[Torrid]

Taycan is based on the Panamera and it again is rated the best EV. So it’s not a proper EV?
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65520209/porsche-taycan-ev-of-the-year-2025/
Edit: Didn’t see the previous replies.

Rated the best EV when the Lucid has better range and faster? I think The Taycan is the best dual purpose platform and I'll take the correction from before becuae I didn't realize it used the Panamera platform, but as numbers go your statement is simply not true.

I'd still rather have the Taycan than the Lucid though. I just love Porsche.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Rated the best EV when the Lucid has better range and faster? I think The Taycan is the best dual purpose platform and I'll take the correction from before becuae I didn't realize it used the Panamera platform, but as numbers go your statement is simply not true.

I'd still rather have the Taycan than the Lucid though. I just love Porsche.

I’m still waiting for the Lucid to run a lap time at the Nurburgring. Pretty sure the brakes or motors would smoke long before it got to the end.

 

[edyvw]

I have been following the Neue Klasse for quite awhile. I've heard pure play EV and I've heard ICE compatible.
Regardless, it should be an improvement over the current ICE-to-EV vehicles from an EV standpoint, and will be amazing. The top dog is slated for 4 motors... Have mercy!

As you point out, shared platforms are cost effective, by definition. But a compromise cannot be optimal. If anyone can bridge the gap, BMW can.

View attachment 292320

BMW said that they are keeping ICE at least until 2050. That was during EV craze. Things changed since then. ICE will be probably primary way to move vehicles in next 40yrs at least.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Taycan is based on the Panamera and it again is rated the best EV. So it’s not a proper EV?
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65520209/porsche-taycan-ev-of-the-year-2025/
Edit: Didn’t see the previous replies.

As a point of clarification, the terms, "pure play" and "proper" are commonly heard in Silicon Valley tech firms. They refer to a dedicated purpose product design. Not all "tools" (Semiconductor mfg equipment) are pure play, but if you want the very best for a given result you have to go pure play. Of course that limits tool vendors...

Probably not unique to high tech, but that is where I worked and learned the vernacular.

 

[Torrid]

I’m still waiting for the Lucid to run a lap time at the Nurburgring. Pretty sure the brakes or motors would smoke long before it got to the end.

I'd like to see it too. I know my Tesla would smoke the brakes, but it's a daily, not a track car. Bigger brakes would just hurt range. I couldn't be bothered to care about that. 99% of drivers would never attempt a 12.95 mile track. No one is driving a Lucid on a track and even for those that are, they likely don't have access to a track like the Nurburgring.

Like I said before, I'd prefer the Porsche over any EV available now, but they're expensive and still have horrible depreciation like every modern expensive car, let alone EV. The Lucid just doesn't look as good as the Porsche.

BMW said that they are keeping ICE at least until 2050. That was during EV craze. Things changed since then. ICE will be probably primary way to move vehicles in next 40yrs at least.

Good for them. I'm likely never buying a new ICE vehicle again. That's a weekend toy for me which means used. It's not even close how much more expensive ICE is to operate with my cheap electrical rates and considering I want fast cars, the service rates suck to put 20k miles on a year. Then again I've admired BMW from afar and they've not made anything in the last 20 years I want. There's a few old ones I'd buy for a weekend toy though.

 

[jghall00]

I’m still waiting for the Lucid to run a lap time at the Nurburgring. Pretty sure the brakes or motors would smoke long before it got to the end.

Probably depends on the trim. I doubt the Sapphire would have any issue. Don't forget, EVs use regen for braking, so that takes some load off the physical brakes. But here ya' go.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Probably depends on the trim. I doubt the Sapphire would have any issue. Don't forget, EVs use regen for braking, so that takes some load off the physical brakes. But here ya' go.

Not what I meant. Official time. Still think brakes would go. Regen only goes so far. Teslas are known for brake fade when pushed.

 

[Torrid]

Probably depends on the trim. I doubt the Sapphire would have any issue. Don't forget, EVs use regen for braking, so that takes some load off the physical brakes. But here ya' go.

Not what I meant. Official time. Still think brakes would go. Regen only goes so far. Teslas are known for brake fade when pushed.

Regen is only good for overheating the motors on a track. Not that I do it often, but when I'm really pushing my car I use a track mode setting that reduces regen. I haven't had it thermally derate me yet, but it also makes the deceleration feel more natural at 20% regen like regular engine braking and then I just use the friction brakes more. I'd do it for the feel alone, but it's well known that many EVs are much quicker to overheat inverters and batteries using heavy regen when pushed hard in performance situations. I might actually be a regular EV driver that goes through the brakes at some point during its lifetime. At least I shouldn't have the caliper seizing issue.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I'm hopeful about the NK. All shall be revealed in less than a couple months in the plazas in Munich.

If nothing else, it will bring back the classic three-box proportions that BMW largely abandoned by the mid-90s.

BMW was one of the first to take the EV leap with i, then became gun shy and hedged its bets, which turned out to be the right call, at least in the near term, with everyone scrambling to shift eggs back and forth.

 

[jghall00]

Not what I meant. Official time. Still think brakes would go. Regen only goes so far. Teslas are known for brake fade when pushed.

Tesla is also I known for cutting corners. Many EVs with track modes cut power for extended runs. This means less heat. Here's the Lightning Lap writeup for the Sapphire, which is the most track oriented version of the Sapphire.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Tesla is also I known for cutting corners. Many EVs with track modes cut power for extended runs. This means less heat. Here's the Lightning: Lap writeup for the Sapphire, which is the most track oriented version of the Sapphire.

This is still not the Nurburgring where it has not run an official lap time. And the article you mention explains why. It overheats at 4 miles on the track, unlike the Taycan, which can do more than the 13 miles of the Nurburgring.
“A 4.1-mile lap in Hot Lap mode uses about 25 percent of the battery and puts enough heat into the motors and pack that the Sapphire is only good for one fast lap at a time.”

 

[jghall00]

This is still not the Nurburgring where it has not run an official lap time. And the article you mention explains why. It overheats at 4 miles on the track, unlike the Taycan, which can do more than the 13 miles of the Nurburgring.
“A 4.1-mile lap in Hot Lap mode uses about 25 percent of the battery and puts enough heat into the motors and pack that the Sapphire is only good for one fast lap at a time.”

The hot lap mode is intended for a single run. The Sapphire also has an Endurance mode for sustained track operation. Maybe we'll see someone put up numbers at the Ring eventually.