So generally can we think of Randomhero and TooSlick oil change formulae as somewhat accurate as they have shown to agree with UOA and OLM ?
I can no longer advocate for Synthetic.
- Thread starter RamFan
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Why anyone would chance going the recommended OCI on conventional oil is beyond me. Clearly, there are great conventional oils, but there are very bad ones too.
So some Florida retiree who makes 3 mile trips and gets (cheap bulk) oil changes at some quickie lube joint gets his engine sludged.
There's no evidence here that quality conventional oil caused any of the problems Cujet describes.
I've been looking to purchase a BMW sports car. First thing I do is pull the cap. Modern BMW's have "free service plans" and are serviced with the proper spec oil (most often) . They universally are sludged beyond belief. Proof of alien life, (conventional oil problems) nope, not proof. However, certainly anecdotal evidence of a continuing problem that is easily avoided.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Why anyone would chance going the recommended OCI on conventional oil is beyond me. Clearly, there are great conventional oils, but there are very bad ones too.
So some Florida retiree who makes 3 mile trips and gets (cheap bulk) oil changes at some quickie lube joint gets his engine sludged.
There's no evidence here that quality conventional oil caused any of the problems Cujet describes.
I've been looking to purchase a BMW sports car. First thing I do is pull the cap. Modern BMW's have "free service plans" and are serviced with the proper spec oil (most often) . They universally are sludged beyond belief. Proof of alien life, (conventional oil problems) nope, not proof. However, certainly anecdotal evidence of a continuing problem that is easily avoided.
Last edited:
Cujet - age and mileage on that picture? I am now getting paranoid even though we are only averaging 10k per annual change.
Ah, that's what real German chocolate looks like.
I did not read all the posts but I can't see how you've come to that conclusion. If you run synthetics longer, and given the price of dino now there is no way you can run dino cheaper anymore. It USED to be true - you could, when you got it for $1-$1.50 a quart, those days are long gone. If you have to do a short OCI due to warranty coverage issues then dino is cheaper of course - I am ignoring that. In summary I now run synthetic because it is cheaper, it protects at extreme usage better, I don't have to crawl under my truck nearly as often, I save time, the oil filters I already have will probably last until I sell/trade it now, in essence there are NO drawbacks, only benefits. What am I missing?
By the way went 120k miles on dino (had a stash) then switched to synthetic last change. Up to about 122k miles, still no leaks. CRAZY I know!
By the way went 120k miles on dino (had a stash) then switched to synthetic last change. Up to about 122k miles, still no leaks. CRAZY I know!
^^^ Well said ^^^.
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
For me , I feel better with the higher flashpoint temp of synthetics as opposed to dino . July traffic jams in ATL can be brutal and if your cooling system is below 100% effeciency and your engine temps rise ... well , I just feel an additional level of margin with synthetics due again to the higher flashpoint before the oil cooks .
Hi,
Just a question for the synthetic fans: Give me the HTHS for an API SN 0w30 new synthetic oil, and the HTHS of a good CI-4 conventional 10w40 oil, and then, tell me which oil can best handle high temperatures
Nowdays, things are more complicated than just dino vs synthetic
For me , I feel better with the higher flashpoint temp of synthetics as opposed to dino . July traffic jams in ATL can be brutal and if your cooling system is below 100% effeciency and your engine temps rise ... well , I just feel an additional level of margin with synthetics due again to the higher flashpoint before the oil cooks .
Hi,
Just a question for the synthetic fans: Give me the HTHS for an API SN 0w30 new synthetic oil, and the HTHS of a good CI-4 conventional 10w40 oil, and then, tell me which oil can best handle high temperatures
Nowdays, things are more complicated than just dino vs synthetic
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: miniac007
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
For me , I feel better with the higher flashpoint temp of synthetics as opposed to dino . July traffic jams in ATL can be brutal and if your cooling system is below 100% effeciency and your engine temps rise ... well , I just feel an additional level of margin with synthetics due again to the higher flashpoint before the oil cooks .
Hi,
Just a question for the synthetic fans: Give me the HTHS for an API SN 0w30 new synthetic oil, and the HTHS of a good CI-4 conventional 10w40 oil, and then, tell me which oil can best handle high temperatures
Nowdays, things are more complicated than just dino vs synthetic
I'm guessing a synthetic meteorite is about to hit and wipe out the dino's.
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
For me , I feel better with the higher flashpoint temp of synthetics as opposed to dino . July traffic jams in ATL can be brutal and if your cooling system is below 100% effeciency and your engine temps rise ... well , I just feel an additional level of margin with synthetics due again to the higher flashpoint before the oil cooks .
Hi,
Just a question for the synthetic fans: Give me the HTHS for an API SN 0w30 new synthetic oil, and the HTHS of a good CI-4 conventional 10w40 oil, and then, tell me which oil can best handle high temperatures
Nowdays, things are more complicated than just dino vs synthetic
I'm guessing a synthetic meteorite is about to hit and wipe out the dino's.
If you run synthetics longer, and given the price of dino now there is no way you can run dino cheaper anymore. It USED to be true - you could, when you got it for $1-$1.50 a quart, those days are long gone. If you have to do a short OCI due to warranty coverage issues then dino is cheaper of course - I am ignoring that. In summary I now run synthetic because it is cheaper, it protects at extreme usage better, I don't have to crawl under my truck nearly as often, I save time, the oil filters I already have will probably last until I sell/trade it now, in essence there are NO drawbacks, only benefits. What am I missing?
Agree 110% That just about sums it up.
One other thing is the potential to go with a slightly thinner oil for the same level of protection. Assuming of course that we are talking about real Synthetic oil.
Two benefits of being able to run a thinner oil are (1) Better economy, (2) Better/quicker protection at start up.
I'm also sold on Synthetic oil as a means to minimise waste oil through extended drain intervals.
Cheers
Agree 110% That just about sums it up.
One other thing is the potential to go with a slightly thinner oil for the same level of protection. Assuming of course that we are talking about real Synthetic oil.
Two benefits of being able to run a thinner oil are (1) Better economy, (2) Better/quicker protection at start up.
I'm also sold on Synthetic oil as a means to minimise waste oil through extended drain intervals.
Cheers
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Why anyone would chance going the recommended OCI on conventional oil is beyond me. Clearly, there are great conventional oils, but there are very bad ones too.
So some Florida retiree who makes 3 mile trips and gets (cheap bulk) oil changes at some quickie lube joint gets his engine sludged.
There's no evidence here that quality conventional oil caused any of the problems Cujet describes.
I've been looking to purchase a BMW sports car. First thing I do is pull the cap. Modern BMW's have "free service plans" and are serviced with the proper spec oil (most often) . They universally are sludged beyond belief. Proof of alien life, (conventional oil problems) nope, not proof. However, certainly anecdotal evidence of a continuing problem that is easily avoided.
I've addressed that before. I strongly believe that is the average BMW owner's fault.
The overwhelming majority of BMW owners are a neglectful lot. BMWs come into my shop with maintenance minders showing many many miles past service interval. Virtually all of them have a check engine light on.
I have one client that traded in his 80,000 mile Range Rover on a 335i because the Range Rover needed a master cylinder. He had been driving that 3 pump to stop Range Rover for months. He has the money for a low mileage pre-owned 335i but not to restore his Range Rover to safe operation.
I thought to myself, "Poor little 3'er...you don't stand a chance do you? If he won't fix his brakes, he's going to completely ignore your maintenance needs."
I'm not saying that all BMW owners are neglectful. But I see many who are.
Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Why anyone would chance going the recommended OCI on conventional oil is beyond me. Clearly, there are great conventional oils, but there are very bad ones too.
So some Florida retiree who makes 3 mile trips and gets (cheap bulk) oil changes at some quickie lube joint gets his engine sludged.
There's no evidence here that quality conventional oil caused any of the problems Cujet describes.
I've been looking to purchase a BMW sports car. First thing I do is pull the cap. Modern BMW's have "free service plans" and are serviced with the proper spec oil (most often) . They universally are sludged beyond belief. Proof of alien life, (conventional oil problems) nope, not proof. However, certainly anecdotal evidence of a continuing problem that is easily avoided.
I've addressed that before. I strongly believe that is the average BMW owner's fault.
The overwhelming majority of BMW owners are a neglectful lot. BMWs come into my shop with maintenance minders showing many many miles past service interval. Virtually all of them have a check engine light on.
I have one client that traded in his 80,000 mile Range Rover on a 335i because the Range Rover needed a master cylinder. He had been driving that 3 pump to stop Range Rover for months. He has the money for a low mileage pre-owned 335i but not to restore his Range Rover to safe operation.
I thought to myself, "Poor little 3'er...you don't stand a chance do you? If he won't fix his brakes, he's going to completely ignore your maintenance needs."
I'm not saying that all BMW owners are neglectful. But I see many who are.
Yes Spaz....it seems so little to ask of an owner to change oil a couple times a year...it's about the cheapest PM an owner can do.
Changed 2x/yr, just about ANY known brand of oil that meets OEM specs, whether conventional or synthetic, should maintain an engine fine....
Over the last half-million miles, I've used conventional oil for every 5k-mile OC/2x-3x/yr...and I'll continue to sleep well doing so
...now with Kitacamry I'll likely use synthetic...there always seems to be some quality syn oil on sale during the OCI...
Changed 2x/yr, just about ANY known brand of oil that meets OEM specs, whether conventional or synthetic, should maintain an engine fine....
Over the last half-million miles, I've used conventional oil for every 5k-mile OC/2x-3x/yr...and I'll continue to sleep well doing so
...now with Kitacamry I'll likely use synthetic...there always seems to be some quality syn oil on sale during the OCI...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Ducman
If you run synthetics longer, and given the price of dino now there is no way you can run dino cheaper anymore. It USED to be true - you could, when you got it for $1-$1.50 a quart, those days are long gone. If you have to do a short OCI due to warranty coverage issues then dino is cheaper of course - I am ignoring that. In summary I now run synthetic because it is cheaper, it protects at extreme usage better, I don't have to crawl under my truck nearly as often, I save time, the oil filters I already have will probably last until I sell/trade it now, in essence there are NO drawbacks, only benefits. What am I missing?
Agree 110% That just about sums it up.
One other thing is the potential to go with a slightly thinner oil for the same level of protection. Assuming of course that we are talking about real Synthetic oil.
Two benefits of being able to run a thinner oil are (1) Better economy, (2) Better/quicker protection at start up.
I'm also sold on Synthetic oil as a means to minimise waste oil through extended drain intervals.
Cheers
Please explain using a lesser grade and still providing the same protection as a higher grade of oil. This seems to be a outdated point to me.
If you run synthetics longer, and given the price of dino now there is no way you can run dino cheaper anymore. It USED to be true - you could, when you got it for $1-$1.50 a quart, those days are long gone. If you have to do a short OCI due to warranty coverage issues then dino is cheaper of course - I am ignoring that. In summary I now run synthetic because it is cheaper, it protects at extreme usage better, I don't have to crawl under my truck nearly as often, I save time, the oil filters I already have will probably last until I sell/trade it now, in essence there are NO drawbacks, only benefits. What am I missing?
Agree 110% That just about sums it up.
One other thing is the potential to go with a slightly thinner oil for the same level of protection. Assuming of course that we are talking about real Synthetic oil.
Two benefits of being able to run a thinner oil are (1) Better economy, (2) Better/quicker protection at start up.
I'm also sold on Synthetic oil as a means to minimise waste oil through extended drain intervals.
Cheers
Please explain using a lesser grade and still providing the same protection as a higher grade of oil. This seems to be a outdated point to me.
Originally Posted By: Ducman
If you run synthetics longer, and given the price of dino now there is no way you can run dino cheaper anymore. It USED to be true - you could, when you got it for $1-$1.50 a quart, those days are long gone. If you have to do a short OCI due to warranty coverage issues then dino is cheaper of course - I am ignoring that. In summary I now run synthetic because it is cheaper, it protects at extreme usage better, I don't have to crawl under my truck nearly as often, I save time, the oil filters I already have will probably last until I sell/trade it now, in essence there are NO drawbacks, only benefits. What am I missing?
Agree 110% That just about sums it up.
One other thing is the potential to go with a slightly thinner oil for the same level of protection. Assuming of course that we are talking about real Synthetic oil.
Two benefits of being able to run a thinner oil are (1) Better economy, (2) Better/quicker protection at start up.
I'm also sold on Synthetic oil as a means to minimise waste oil through extended drain intervals.
Cheers
I get trop artic (basically Motorcraft semi syn) for $27 a case at sams. using 5 qts for 5k mi $5 filter and $10 labor, cost is $0.00525 per mile.
Using a Full Synthetic oil $28 at Walmart with the same filter and labor for 7500 miles cost $0.0056 per mile
cost difference is negligible.
It really depends on what kind of service duty the vehicle is in and how comfortable someone is in leaving the oil in for a longer period. For me, 5K with a good semi syn.
If you run synthetics longer, and given the price of dino now there is no way you can run dino cheaper anymore. It USED to be true - you could, when you got it for $1-$1.50 a quart, those days are long gone. If you have to do a short OCI due to warranty coverage issues then dino is cheaper of course - I am ignoring that. In summary I now run synthetic because it is cheaper, it protects at extreme usage better, I don't have to crawl under my truck nearly as often, I save time, the oil filters I already have will probably last until I sell/trade it now, in essence there are NO drawbacks, only benefits. What am I missing?
Agree 110% That just about sums it up.
One other thing is the potential to go with a slightly thinner oil for the same level of protection. Assuming of course that we are talking about real Synthetic oil.
Two benefits of being able to run a thinner oil are (1) Better economy, (2) Better/quicker protection at start up.
I'm also sold on Synthetic oil as a means to minimise waste oil through extended drain intervals.
Cheers
I get trop artic (basically Motorcraft semi syn) for $27 a case at sams. using 5 qts for 5k mi $5 filter and $10 labor, cost is $0.00525 per mile.
Using a Full Synthetic oil $28 at Walmart with the same filter and labor for 7500 miles cost $0.0056 per mile
cost difference is negligible.
It really depends on what kind of service duty the vehicle is in and how comfortable someone is in leaving the oil in for a longer period. For me, 5K with a good semi syn.
Last edited:
I usually only run "house" brand syn when its on sale. Last couple years its been NAPA synthetic. PQIA testing shows its virtually identical to Synpower. I'll take it all at $3.49/qt.
Several people have stated that NAPA synthetic is identical or nearly identical to Synpower. There is no dispute that Valvoline makes NAPA's synthetic. However, Valvoline has stated that it is not the same oil. If you use PQIA numbers to conclude that they are nearly identical, then you should consider Royal Purple in a similar light. It seems that RP is just as close to Synpower as is NAPA.
Originally Posted By: GMorg
Several people have stated that NAPA synthetic is identical or nearly identical to Synpower. There is no dispute that Valvoline makes NAPA's synthetic. However, Valvoline has stated that it is not the same oil. If you use PQIA numbers to conclude that they are nearly identical, then you should consider Royal Purple in a similar light. It seems that RP is just as close to Synpower as is NAPA.
What? RP is not the same as VSP? Now I have to go drain my oil because I read on this forum it was.
Several people have stated that NAPA synthetic is identical or nearly identical to Synpower. There is no dispute that Valvoline makes NAPA's synthetic. However, Valvoline has stated that it is not the same oil. If you use PQIA numbers to conclude that they are nearly identical, then you should consider Royal Purple in a similar light. It seems that RP is just as close to Synpower as is NAPA.
What? RP is not the same as VSP? Now I have to go drain my oil because I read on this forum it was.
For those few like me on this forum who take their car somewhere to be serviced, the difference is significant.
I run conventional mobil 5000 for 5K and get it done at the dealer for 29.99 + tax(includes tire rotation and wash & vacuum), syn starts at 49.99(59.99 for mobil EP ).
Hard to get a good ROI with syn in my case.
I run conventional mobil 5000 for 5K and get it done at the dealer for 29.99 + tax(includes tire rotation and wash & vacuum), syn starts at 49.99(59.99 for mobil EP ).
Hard to get a good ROI with syn in my case.
BlueOvalFitter wrote: "What? RP is not the same as VSP?"
Compare RP to Synpower at PQIA. For the measurements that are made, they are fairly similar. My point was that elemental analysis does not lend itself to the conclusion that two oils are nearly identical. I agree that they are vary similar for in the parameters that were measured. Actually, RP seems to me to be as similar to Synpower as is NAPA when considering only the data at PQIA.
Compare RP to Synpower at PQIA. For the measurements that are made, they are fairly similar. My point was that elemental analysis does not lend itself to the conclusion that two oils are nearly identical. I agree that they are vary similar for in the parameters that were measured. Actually, RP seems to me to be as similar to Synpower as is NAPA when considering only the data at PQIA.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Sticky
