I can no longer advocate for Synthetic.

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
I run conventional for 5000, synthetics for 10,000. Synthetics are the better buy for me, plus I save even more buying 50% less filters, too.


Additionally, owning a Honda V6, even though it a non-VCM, synthetics give me peace of mind to go the full MM directed 7,500 OCI. I would not do that with a conventional.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
You made the right call to get the 5.0. Just say no to 2 Turbos spinning at 20,000 rpms.


You guys act like turbos are brand new technology that self destructs in 100 miles. When actually most last longer than the cars. An extreme example is OTR engines, the turbos last hundreds of thousands of miles, some make it to a million miles.
Also, its 200,000 not 20,000.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
When its 0*F., a top-tier synthetic oil can reach all internal moving parts twice as fast as dino-based oils.


Twice as fast huh? Please show me your source for that one.

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
You really can't compare an atmospheric V8 to a turbo 4, but for the sake of argument let’s meet in the middle, look at the Ecoboost in the F150. It’s life expectancy is supposedly tested to several hundred thousand miles. It’s the premier towing engine! I believe it does not require synthetic (please correct if I'm wrong).
Many here tout “new engines…better materials…tolerances…clearances…”. Why wouldn’t a new turbo 4 be expected to last on its specified oil – whether that be conventional or syn (whatever that application specifies)? Most vehicles die from rot, broken driveline, or accidents before the engine blows up (unless it's a doo dee engine design from the start).


My parents' 2013 Escape ecoboost specifies a ford spec that some conventional meet. Time will tell.

On the testing for the F150 Ecoboost, didn't they run the engine wide open? That's not exactly real world. The real world engines are going to be short tripped, run hard then shut right off (though, I guess that's not a problem with coolant cooled turbos).

Very good point - here in NY, the vehicle is going to rust out before it wears out (unless it suffers an AT failure or something odd). There aren't any "great" engines that stick out, because they are all pretty much excellent now. A few sludgers here and there, however.



the ecoboost engine was testes in extreme temperature changes that the engine could see in real life. They freeze shocked the entire block, then started it and redlined the engine until over 200 degrees and repeated to process over and over again in the 150k mile dyno testing. you can watch this on youtube.

I've heard the ecoboost was tested/raced on motorcraft Syn-blend, the very same oil we can buy off the shelf at walmart.

also i havent seen any proof that the new 5.0 is any more reliable than the ecoboost. and turbos are nothing new to the automotive world. the ecoboost's internals are built to withstand boost, and turbo's will last a very long time with regular oil changes and factory recommended coolant changes.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: volk06
You guys act like turbos are brand new technology that self destructs in 100 miles.


No, but a new twin turbo, direct injected V6 in a pickup truck doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling the first couple of model years.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08
also i havent seen any proof that the new 5.0 is any more reliable than the ecoboost.


Yeah, well I haven't heard of any 5.0L's misfiring, stalling, or shuddering.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: FZ1
You made the right call to get the 5.0. Just say no to 2 Turbos spinning at 20,000 rpms.


You guys act like turbos are brand new technology that self destructs in 100 miles. When actually most last longer than the cars. An extreme example is OTR engines, the turbos last hundreds of thousands of miles, some make it to a million miles.
Also, its 200,000 not 20,000.
I prefer to be on the trailing edge of technology.

 

[WiskyBadger]

Originally Posted By: Miller88


I'd like to see how long my 2.0 Duratec will go, but the car will probably be consumed by rust around 100K so I won't get to find out.


No way will your car completely rust out before 100k. I live in Wisconsin we get as much salty roads as anyone and cars easily hit 200k here.

 

[Hyde244]

^ Same here in Ohio. Just give your car a bath every 2 months during the winter, and the body will last even longer. We just sold a Town and Country with 275,000 miles on it, and no rust.

 

[Zako2]

I like the idea of using synthetic oil simply because of long drain. May be it's me, but from my experience after living in a suburb, it gets a little daunting to change oil every 5000 miles with conventional when you have like three cars in a household.

 

[SuperDave456]

I love my beater.
My 2002 Ford Taurus has 191,000 miles on Dino.
The engine was designed for Dino.

I'm hoping to get 300,000 miles out of it.
If I get there and everything is good, then I'm going to try 400.000.
I'm going to drive it till the wheels fall off. No car payments for me!

If you stick to the manufacturer's recommendations then you should be able to drive your vehicle until it falls apart.

The engine should be the last part working.
When was the last time you saw a catastrophic engine failure?
Typically when instructions are not followed.

Follow the instructions and the car should fall apart around the engine. How fast those parts wear out depends a lot on the Manufacturer and their schedule for Design Obsolescence.

 

[gregoron]

If I can find a VW 502.00 spec conventional oil, I'd be all over it. But, I can't in my market so I'm using synthetic. Plus, I'm on extended drain OCI.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: RamFan


There are two main advantages to synthetic; extended drain capability and cold start protection. Extended drains can be disputed, many OLMs that prescribe conventional usage are running over 6k miles (6k seems to be the magic number for when a lot of people say a synthetic should be used). Cold start definitely cannot be desputed. Synthetics flow better than conventional oil in cold temperatures,


I could not disagree more. As a mechanic here in sunny, warm South Florida, I regularly see the effects of "conventional" oil changes. Especially in vehicles with adjustable cam timing, cam phasers, and so on. I also see vehicles with incredible amounts of sludge, timing chain problems, hyd lifter problems, stuck rings, coked up turbo's, horrible valve deposits and on and on.


The only reliable way to avoid such problems is to choose a product such as M1, and change regularly.

I'm sorry to admit that most new vehicles are "high tech" and expensive to repair. Why anyone would chance going the recommended OCI on conventional oil is beyond me. Clearly, there are great conventional oils, but there are very bad ones too. And, you have no way to know, until after the fact.

 

[ChrisD46]

+1 Cujet - Quaker State Advanced Durability is $5.00 more than dino , PP and M1 are roughly $10.00 per oil change.
If you average the increase over the life of the OCI it is miniscule .
You also have to consider the life of the Oil Filter and not just the oil - that's why I stand by a PureOne (or similar) oilf filter , synthetic oil and a 7500 / 6 month OCI and never , ever have a oil related issue.

 

[Danno]

My 2013 Sonata has a 3,750 mile OCI mandated by warranty. It gets Pennzoil Conventional or Valvoline 5w20 conventional with OEM oil filter.
PP on sale at Walmart is $16 more per jug than the Pennzoil Conventional.
I have no concerns on the use of conventional - and I would call my climate extreme. Have seen as low as -40F temps.

 

[zerosoma]

you say cost isnt an issue; it is for me. if syn is on sale i run it; if dino is on sale i run it.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: RamFan


There are two main advantages to synthetic; extended drain capability and cold start protection. Extended drains can be disputed, many OLMs that prescribe conventional usage are running over 6k miles (6k seems to be the magic number for when a lot of people say a synthetic should be used). Cold start definitely cannot be desputed. Synthetics flow better than conventional oil in cold temperatures,


I could not disagree more. As a mechanic here in sunny, warm South Florida, I regularly see the effects of "conventional" oil changes. Especially in vehicles with adjustable cam timing, cam phasers, and so on. I also see vehicles with incredible amounts of sludge, timing chain problems, hyd lifter problems, stuck rings, coked up turbo's, horrible valve deposits and on and on.


The only reliable way to avoid such problems is to choose a product such as M1, and change regularly.

I'm sorry to admit that most new vehicles are "high tech" and expensive to repair. Why anyone would chance going the recommended OCI on conventional oil is beyond me. Clearly, there are great conventional oils, but there are very bad ones too. And, you have no way to know, until after the fact.


+1 Cujet,
I'm glad to see folks like yourself that see the internels of engines every day report on the advantages of quality synthetic oils rather than opinions gleened from those that haven't got a clue what makes an engine go round and round.

Thank you Sir.

 

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Why anyone would chance going the recommended OCI on conventional oil is beyond me. Clearly, there are great conventional oils, but there are very bad ones too.


So some Florida retiree who makes 3 mile trips and gets (cheap bulk) oil changes at some quickie lube joint gets his engine sludged.

There's no evidence here that quality conventional oil caused any of the problems Cujet describes.

 

[BigBird57]

+1
The SN/GF5 rated oils are really "semi-synthetic". A direct result of the direct injected engines we see these days.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Originally Posted By: Miller88


I'd like to see how long my 2.0 Duratec will go, but the car will probably be consumed by rust around 100K so I won't get to find out.


No way will your car completely rust out before 100k. I live in Wisconsin we get as much salty roads as anyone and cars easily hit 200k here.


My last ford made it to 70,000 miles and 9 years before it rusted to the point that it wasn't safe or fixable