I am not alone

[oilpsi2high]

Your average consumer looks at the monthly payment, not the overall cost, when buying a new vehicle or really any high dollar item. This is why manufacturers are getting away with charging such high prices for these items to begin with. To be fair, not very many average (50k household income) Americans have $ 30,000 cash in their new car fund right now.

So to compensate, they decide that they can "afford" the payment (which if you are making payments and don't have the cash in the bank then you really can't afford it), then they go for it. They pay the bank interest, and the car goes down in value a couple grand a year. They don't really notice this because their payment is the same every month. So, the majority drive their vehicle until the warranty expires, then at the first sign of a major repair, they trade the vehicle in (another loss versus selling it privately) and start the cycle over again. They end up losing tens of thousands of dollars and don't even realize it. All just to get back and forth to work.

 

[oilpsi2high]

Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
I'm going to drive our 04 Camry V6 until a sensor indicates something major like cats going bad or some problem with engine/transmission that I can't fix myself. At four thousand miles a year, the Camry may outlast me. Wife might have to decide on next car. I would probably lease one for three years.


Please don't take this the wrong way, but this is the perfect example of what is wrong with American consumers.

You're talking about taking a paid-for asset with relatively low operating costs, and then selling it and renting a car because you'll have to spend a couple hundred bucks on maintenance. That rationality is completely backwards. Even if you spent 3k a year on repairs you'd come out ahead of renting or financing.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Your average consumer looks at the monthly payment, not the overall cost, when buying a new vehicle or really any high dollar item. This is why manufacturers are getting away with charging such high prices for these items to begin with. To be fair, not very many average (50k household income) Americans have $ 30,000 cash in their new car fund right now.


While I agree with you, I'd like point out that income and car cost hasn't changed that much over the years. What has changed is housing cost; I recently read that in 1950 median house to median income was 2x. Today it's 5x. That is where our money is going.

Quote:
So to compensate, they decide that they can "afford" the payment (which if you are making payments and don't have the cash in the bank then you really can't afford it), then they go for it. They pay the bank interest, and the car goes down in value a couple grand a year. They don't really notice this because their payment is the same every month. So, the majority drive their vehicle until the warranty expires, then at the first sign of a major repair, they trade the vehicle in (another loss versus selling it privately) and start the cycle over again. They end up losing tens of thousands of dollars and don't even realize it. All just to get back and forth to work.


IMO, if cars haven't increased in price over the years, then it's a combination of two things: one, having to spend more on housing. Two, choosing to spend more on a nicer car than needed. Which then puts the budget very tight.

But to be fair, cars are lasting longer than ever. Back in the bad old days... you couldn't have short vehicle life and people holding onto cars longer than we do today. If cars didn't last back then, then people had to be replacing them, and often. Which says to me... nothing has changed. Back then people just put up with 3 year loans and bought every 3-5.
It would have been a large line item in the budget. Today they put up with 5-7 year loans and buy every 5-7, and perhaps it represents a smaller line item.

I'm not sure that human behavior has changed (it rarely does).

 

[oilpsi2high]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Your average consumer looks at the monthly payment, not the overall cost, when buying a new vehicle or really any high dollar item. This is why manufacturers are getting away with charging such high prices for these items to begin with. To be fair, not very many average (50k household income) Americans have $ 30,000 cash in their new car fund right now.


While I agree with you, I'd like point out that income and car cost hasn't changed that much over the years. What has changed is housing cost; I recently read that in 1950 median house to median income was 2x. Today it's 5x. That is where our money is going.

Quote:
So to compensate, they decide that they can "afford" the payment (which if you are making payments and don't have the cash in the bank then you really can't afford it), then they go for it. They pay the bank interest, and the car goes down in value a couple grand a year. They don't really notice this because their payment is the same every month. So, the majority drive their vehicle until the warranty expires, then at the first sign of a major repair, they trade the vehicle in (another loss versus selling it privately) and start the cycle over again. They end up losing tens of thousands of dollars and don't even realize it. All just to get back and forth to work.


IMO, if cars haven't increased in price over the years, then it's a combination of two things: one, having to spend more on housing. Two, choosing to spend more on a nicer car than needed. Which then puts the budget very tight.

But to be fair, cars are lasting longer than ever. Back in the bad old days... you couldn't have short vehicle life and people holding onto cars longer than we do today. If cars didn't last back then, then people had to be replacing them, and often. Which says to me... nothing has changed. Back then people just put up with 3 year loans and bought every 3-5.
It would have been a large line item in the budget. Today they put up with 5-7 year loans and buy every 5-7, and perhaps it represents a smaller line item.

I'm not sure that human behavior has changed (it rarely does).


You're right, inflation also plays a big part of it.

You're also correct in the sense that the housing market is at a peak right now. That doesn't mean we should be buying things that we can't afford, but others might see things differently.

 

[IndyIan]

The mid-size and up SUV's are priced way up there though. New for something with AWD and 6,7 seats is $35k+ for a Dodge Journey, let alone a Highlander or Explorer. Considering the 2wd versions sell for 2/3 the price, there is quite a bit of profit added for a few mechanical bits.

 

[oilpsi2high]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The mid-size and up SUV's are priced way up there though. New for something with AWD and 6,7 seats is $35k+ for a Dodge Journey, let alone a Highlander or Explorer. Considering the 2wd versions sell for 2/3 the price, there is quite a bit of profit added for a few mechanical bits.


The new Chevy Equinox, aka a crossover version of the Cruze, is $ 43,000 for the Premier version.

 

[Duffyjr]

Buying a new vehicle makes no sense at all to me, even if you can pay cash for it. Just driving it off the lot loses you over 10% and in 5 years it's not even worth half of what you paid for it.

No thanks, I'll let somebody else take that hit.

 

[TexasVaquero]

Just get a Toyota and forget about Exploders

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Average age of my fleet is 13 years old.

Unless I include the camper, then it jumps to 17

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I'm worried now. I had to replace a brake light bulb for my 84 Civic. It's getting expensive to maintain. That cost 52 cents.

I'm looking for a new car that does not have the same features my Civic does not have. No luck.


Nissan Versa and/or Nissan Versa. That's about all we have that comes close. And even then, I'm willing to bet it has a ton more than your Civic.

It's nickle and diming you to death. Pretty soon your repairs will reach tens of dollars per month.

 

[oilpsi2high]

Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
Buying a new vehicle makes no sense at all to me, even if you can pay cash for it. Just driving it off the lot loses you over 10% and in 5 years it's not even worth half of what you paid for it.

No thanks, I'll let somebody else take that hit.


It makes sense on some models because used is close to the cost of new, especially with incentives. I wouldn't discount all new cars based on this.

Also, the only way to keep your transportation costs as low as possible is to run every car until it is no longer safe to drive (rusted out frame for instance), or it needs a $ 5,000 engine and the car is only worth $ 500. Even then, you can probably find used, or rebuild the motor, but I digress.

 

[A_Harman]

My daily drivers are 15 and 16 years old and have 261k and 345k on them.
My lowest mile vehicle has 71k on it and is 45 years old.
My track car is 32 years old and has 110k on it.

Buying a car for me is always the beginning of a long-term relationship.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
Buying a new vehicle makes no sense at all to me, even if you can pay cash for it. Just driving it off the lot loses you over 10% and in 5 years it's not even worth half of what you paid for it.

Lots of people have no choice but to buy new because its typically the easiest car loan for which to qualify.

Interest rate is lower and plus there is the full warranty period, etc.

 

[Al]

Just gave my granddaughter our 01 Nissan Sentra with SR20DE Engine. One of the most solid engines ever built. It has 160KJ miles. It uses so little oil you really can't measure it.

 

[69GTX]

15 and 18 yr old cars. Highest mileage is 75K. Still lots of life left. Bought them as 1 owner/used with 12K and 22K miles. Never bought a new car and don't ever intend to.

 

[E150GT]

Originally Posted By: TexasVaquero
Just get a Toyota and forget about Exploders

ewwww no

 

[CourierDriver]

While we are at it,,,why cant we buy directional bulbs for 5o cents each,,,I really enjoy paying 15 bucks for 2 bulbs these days,,,did I mention spark plugs,,,insane...

 

[bioburner]

I just added to my fleet a 1999 F350 with 72k on it. A new similar is north of 70k and it has some strange system feeding the exhaust system fertilizer every 500 or so miles and the insurance would be another kick in the pants. With GM being served a lawsuit over having a device to circumvent emissions I don't need a buy back in my future. I'll keep buying used with a once over from my trusted mechanic. I can fix most things but knowing what to look for I just don't have enough experience for the most part.

 

[copcarguy]

'97, '05, and two '07's in our house.

Bought the '97 from the original owner in 2012...

Just inherited the '05...

And bought both '07 vehicles new...

This is the longest we've ever kept vehicles, we used to get new ones every two or three years.

 

[fdcg27]

Who cares?
There's not a vehicle anyone on this site owns that we couldn't write a check for.
I drive either a 23 YO or a 22 YO vehicle to work every day on a round trip of fifty miles.
With anything like decent maintenance, any vehicle will last for a long time.
If people want to spend more to drive something new and fancy, then it is their money and they should do so.
If cheapskates like me choose to drive old stuff, so what?
Of course, as retirement looms, we'll see who can afford a nice winter home in Mexico rather than one in trashy Florida.

 

[daves87rs]

14,13, and 11 here.

Debated about getting a new Nox, but since my layoff from my job (auto industry heading down now), I'm working like 30ish instead of 60. Might still get a new CUV, but it will be a way off....

Thinking a new used Cruze would be a good start. Small cars have no value in a market where he SUV is king at the moment. So I should be able to pick up a 2-3 year old one for about half the price of new....

Would much rather be saving more money at this point....living in a state that bends you over for having a car here....