Hyundai Kona EV - the costs of beating range anxiety

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Originally Posted by Marco620
Wouldnt wanna be in a EV during electrical storm or in one that crashed and fell into a pond or lake. Myself, I'm cheering for natural gas or hydrogen instead. Sorry OP..I'm on a 24 hour go and have completed a very long duration of sobriety and caffeine withdraw so im a tad loopy.Gnite


Yeah, I know, I wouldn't want to be in a vehicle carrying 40 gallons of explosive gasoline. Wait, never mind.
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Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Wolf359

What's the $2000 charge?


Per the article, it's a dedicated home charger that can charge in 9+ hours...that's what ?

7KW ?

Originally Posted by Wolf359
30 and 50 amp outlets are pretty common in the US, the 30 amp one is for an electric dryer and the 50 is for an electric stove. Lots of people can just DIY those types of outlets. Most homes either have a 100 amp or 200 amp service. Newer homes would have a 200 amp service and older homes would have 100 amps. Most places that would have started with a 60 amp service have probably been upgraded by now.


What voltage ?

Here, driers run off a standard 10 Amp outlet, and electric kettles are around 2KW.


Seems a bit high for just an outlet. Anyway yeah 30 amps is 240 volts for an electric dryer. And it's 50 amps at 240v for an electric stove. I guess that's so you can have 4 burners going at the same time plus the oven when you're cooking a Christmas dinner. I'm in an older city so lots of 100 year old homes most are only 100 and the new stuff is 200. Usually gas or oil for heating so no need for higher amperage service panel.
 
Will the powergrid carry the load? In California a hot day stresses the grid.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
Will the powergrid carry the load? In California a hot day stresses the grid.

Short answer, no. Aug 14, 2003. 55 million people in the NE US and Ontario lost power on a hot day due to transmission line overload and cascading failure.

EVs are cool and all, I wouldn't mind one myself if price and availability were a little better. But mass adoption will cause problems which will be expensive to fix. I predict long term it will drastically increase the price of electricity for everyone.
 
I recently drove from Fl to WV and got caught in a couple of construction + rush hour traffic jams. I lost an hour in one of them. I saw a couple of the big Teslas inching along with me. I wondered how that would affect their trip, sitting in traffic jams with the ac running????
 
Those published mileage figures are optimal. I wouldn't bet the farm on going that far. Age, weather, and a host of things will drop those distances some.

A lot of planning ahead needed as well. A lot of crying when you hit Tucumcari NM and realize there is no charge point.
 
Well, eventually Evs will be the thing. Too many manufacturers betting on it. I suspect they'll start as most folks second car for tooling around in the city more than anything. Then as they get better and better (and they will !) they will fully supplant the gas auto.

I bought a Milwaukee M18 mini blower for the shop. Cute little thing. But, it's turned out to be good enough to do the around the house blowing (driveway, flower beds etc). It's so good that I haven't fired off my Echo gas blower in a year. I need to rectify that soon before it gums up or looses a primer bulb or whatever. Just gotta find time to get to it, but pretty busy now with home repairs. Thank heavens there's the M18 blower that takes nothing in the way of maintenance short of charging the batteries so I can always depend on it.

And so it will go with gas fired vehicles.
 
Originally Posted by MrMoody
Originally Posted by CT8
Will the powergrid carry the load? In California a hot day stresses the grid.

Short answer, no.


Just to replace my wife and my commute would double the household electricity consumption.

Multiply that by a few million households.

I was talking to a senior guy in the Electricity Market Operator earlier this year....off peak power (11PM to 4AM) will not last very much longer at all.
 
Originally Posted by ecotourist
I suppose another option would be to rent a vehicle for long drives. Otherwise we have a perfect situation for an EV vehicle - never very cold or very hot, short distances only (less than 100 km a day), always parked in our garage overnight - and often for a day or two between drives.

The only way to make it work for me would be to have two vehicles, and the F-150 I have really doesn't count. It's range is bad enough.
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Seriously, I'd need two vehicles, and where's the environmental sense in that? And, has been mentioned a few times here in this thread and elsewhere, there is the grid. SaskPower has enough trouble keeping the lights on now, particularly in the summer. Replace even 1/4 of the vehicles here with plug ins, and I'll be reading by candle light all summer, and I'd shudder to see what would go wrong in the winter. Of course, no one would want SaskPower to replace that electricity with anything except wind or solar, which won't be enough.
 
It all reminds me of back in the '80's, when NZ was big on CNG, and a little less big on LPG....becoming less dependent on overseas fuel, using what we had a lot of. They ran pipes all over the country, and service stations put in CNG and LPG refueling setups. I had a couple of vehicles on CNG, not much range, we usually filled up every couple of days, and on a trip if you went off the pipeline routes you weren't able to refuel. But they were all dual fuel, so you had to switch over to petrol to keep going. I guess they were like hybrids. We coped, and the fuel savings were worth it. Fuel costs for our 186 Holden were the same as the Mini 1000 we had before, plus a bit more room.
 
I tried to figure out how an EV or even a hybrid would work for me. For work or the rips into town it would work range wise. I drive 40km to work, use a work truck for my block and then drive 40km home. The wife does 50km round trip each day to town for work. Add some overnight or during the day charging and it could work.

But hear is the real issue; I live in Saskatchewan. I live down 6 miles of grid road. Department of Holidays (good people but too few and cover far too much area) is not super quick to get the highways cleared. The RM is hit and miss when it comes to clearing the grid roads. Sure an SUV/crossover with good tires could manage (have seen my fair share of them leaving bumpers and bits of chassis behind in the snow). But the biggest issue is the grid roads. Gravel eats tires, it eats the undercarriage. When we get a heavy down pour, you need ground clearance and 4wd just to inch along. You will destroy cars, crossovers, minivans in short order. Its just not feasible to have any of those vehicles long term, let alone a EV/hybrid version.

I hear Ford will come out with an EV F150... great. Now I can buy an electric motor wrapped in that garbage platform. Is that truck capable of towing heavy loads? So now I need to buy an EV truck to DD to work and still have an HD truck with an ICE to do the real work. Where are the economics in that?

Now EV range. Again we live in Sask. Do a day trip to Stoon, that's 400km round trip in just highway km. Go to Regina? About 450km one way. Might stop a few times to get a bite or let the kids out but I can burn that trip out in 5 hours. Why would I make that a mulit day trip?

Now if I moved to town, which is a possibility, getting a small EV for shorter day trips and local cruising is a possibility. I wonder what insurance is for them in these parts though.
 
Originally Posted by BrianF
I tried to figure out how an EV or even a hybrid would work for me. For work or the rips into town it would work range wise. I drive 40km to work, use a work truck for my block and then drive 40km home. The wife does 50km round trip each day to town for work. Add some overnight or during the day charging and it could work.

But hear is the real issue; I live in Saskatchewan. I live down 6 miles of grid road. Department of Holidays (good people but too few and cover far too much area) is not super quick to get the highways cleared. The RM is hit and miss when it comes to clearing the grid roads. Sure an SUV/crossover with good tires could manage (have seen my fair share of them leaving bumpers and bits of chassis behind in the snow). But the biggest issue is the grid roads. Gravel eats tires, it eats the undercarriage. When we get a heavy down pour, you need ground clearance and 4wd just to inch along. You will destroy cars, crossovers, minivans in short order. Its just not feasible to have any of those vehicles long term, let alone a EV/hybrid version.

I hear Ford will come out with an EV F150... great. Now I can buy an electric motor wrapped in that garbage platform. Is that truck capable of towing heavy loads? So now I need to buy an EV truck to DD to work and still have an HD truck with an ICE to do the real work. Where are the economics in that?

Now EV range. Again we live in Sask. Do a day trip to Stoon, that's 400km round trip in just highway km. Go to Regina? About 450km one way. Might stop a few times to get a bite or let the kids out but I can burn that trip out in 5 hours. Why would I make that a mulit day trip?

Now if I moved to town, which is a possibility, getting a small EV for shorter day trips and local cruising is a possibility. I wonder what insurance is for them in these parts though.

I would think EV would be even better at towing.
https://electrek.co/2018/05/04/audi...-suvs-towing-capability-pulling-trailer/

Now, I am not an EV fan. I am a turbocharged ICE fan, until Hybrids evolve further, but once that happens, I will be in the hybrid camp.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6

I would think EV would be even better at towing.
https://electrek.co/2018/05/04/audi...-suvs-towing-capability-pulling-trailer/

Now, I am not an EV fan. I am a turbocharged ICE fan, until Hybrids evolve further, but once that happens, I will be in the hybrid camp.


A couple of glossy photos, and Tesla's rail stunt don't demonstrate a superior towing capacity for E.Vs.

Rail by definition has to be pretty flat slope wise, otherwise the steel wheels in steel track don't work...and being rail, the rolling friction is negligible...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmM-635RR6o

Doesn't mean that a VW toerag is better at towing than my Colorado...
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
Doesn't mean that a VW toerag is better at towing than my Colorado...

Maybe they thought it said Tow Rig.
 
I would imagine that an EV could have some torque to tow but at what cost to range? How would the battery packs do with constant charging and discharging?

I cant remember what mileage I was getting but probably around the 8-9 mpg when my truck/trailer was around the 33,000lb mark, hauling hay at highway speed. I finished a load, turned around, drove with trailer unloaded, grabbed some diesel and started again. Only time my truck was shut off was refueling or loading. It can do this all day long. 1000km in 1.5 days (only hauled during daylight).

Just don't think an EV that can do this is in my price range.
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Ws6

I would think EV would be even better at towing.
https://electrek.co/2018/05/04/audi...-suvs-towing-capability-pulling-trailer/

Now, I am not an EV fan. I am a turbocharged ICE fan, until Hybrids evolve further, but once that happens, I will be in the hybrid camp.


A couple of glossy photos, and Tesla's rail stunt don't demonstrate a superior towing capacity for E.Vs.

Rail by definition has to be pretty flat slope wise, otherwise the steel wheels in steel track don't work...and being rail, the rolling friction is negligible...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmM-635RR6o

Doesn't mean that a VW toerag is better at towing than my Colorado...



EV range towing would be a major concern.

But full torque at 0 RPM is sort of every Diesel's dream...

Pulling a 747 to me is just a stunt. So what? It didn't get up to speed, and are t there tugs thst do that at the airport already?
 
Don't forget EVs are bad in extreme cold (and hot) weather. A combustion engine has copious spare heat to keep you warm/alive. What if your trying to drive somewhere that on paper is within range yet there is heavy traffic and the climate control is sapping your battery down? What if you got stuck in some snow somewhere? An EV will run out of juice keeping a vehicle warm. You could idle a cummins like BrianF's truck for days off and on and stay warm. Its less than a gallon per hour. You can triple the fuel capacity for under $2k with an extra diesel tank in bed. I'd love to see an EV triple its capacity without spending $100k+ to do so.

But.....i'd still like to get a Tesla someday.
 
Originally Posted by Marco620
Myself, I'm cheering for natural gas or hydrogen instead. Sorry OP..I'm on a 24 hour go and have completed a very long duration of sobriety and caffeine withdraw so im a tad loopy.Gnite

xNG is only getting traction with buses and trucks as of late - it seems like Cummins Westport, Worthington Industries/Catalina Cylinders, Aglity Fuel Systems and the bus/truck OEMs are on board with it but only because of SoCal, airports and the waste companies.

Hydrogen is looking less likely to penetrate the passenger car market outside of Toyota and Honda, the Mirai and Clarity FCHV are loss leaders and there's not too many of them around. Again, the transit bus market is the brightest prospect for those. Honda couldn't sell the Civic CNG outside of government fleets, and Ford only sold CNG/LNG Taurii/Crown Vics/F150s/E-Series vans to taxi/government fleets. Caltrans at one point in time had a sizeable fleet of CNG F150s.
 
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Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by Marco620
Myself, I'm cheering for natural gas or hydrogen instead. Sorry OP..I'm on a 24 hour go and have completed a very long duration of sobriety and caffeine withdraw so im a tad loopy.Gnite

xNG is only getting traction with buses and trucks as of late - it seems like Cummins Westport, Worthington Industries/Catalina Cylinders, Aglity Fuel Systems and the bus/truck OEMs are on board with it but only because of SoCal, airports and the waste companies.

Hydrogen is looking less likely to penetrate the passenger car market outside of Toyota and Honda, the Mirai and Clarity FCHV are loss leaders and there's not too many of them around. Again, the transit bus market is the brightest prospect for those. Honda couldn't sell the Civic CNG outside of government fleets, and Ford only sold CNG/LNG Taurii/Crown Vics/F150s/E-Series vans to taxi/government fleets. Caltrans at one point in time had a sizeable fleet of CNG F150s.


If/when they can get costs to drop, reformed gas fuel cells will be a good option. Higher thermal efficiency, but intrinsically refuelable.
 
Originally Posted by Silk
It all reminds me of back in the '80's, when NZ was big on CNG, and a little less big on LPG....becoming less dependent on overseas fuel, using what we had a lot of. They ran pipes all over the country, and service stations put in CNG and LPG refueling setups.

CNG never really caught on in these parts. The buses use them, and I can only think of one other place to fill that. LPG did very well for a time, and is still somewhat available. Back in the early 1990s, I'd take road trips at any hour of day or night to any destination with my LPG LTD and not worry. Now, I might have to be a bit cautious. E85 is out of the question.
 
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