Hyundai Elantra head gasket

[Stelth]

My daughter has a 2003 Hyundai Elantra. She came by yesterday, and I asked her if she was checking her fluids regularly. She said yes, except that she hadn't looked in the radiator recently. I looked in it and it looked like it was full of butterscotch pudding. The oil looks clean.

History: some time back, the car got hot and cracked the head. She had the "mechanic" at her work replace it in lieu of some back pay that she was owed. A short time later, she had oil in the coolant. Same guy took the head off and replaced the head gasket. Now she has oil in the coolant. The cam cover gasket is also leaking oil down the back of the engine. The fellow who worked on it is apparently not as mechanically inclined as he thinks he is. I don't know if he didn't replace the bolts, didn't torque the head right, or what, but if he can't even get the cam cover gasket to seal, I really don't have any faith in him.

I have a car that my daughter can borrow. My plan is to pull the head myself, take it to a machine shop I trust for testing, and replace the head gasket myself. I'm not an auto mechanic by trade, but I've done some of this work before, including a head replacement, and replacing a broken piston and all the rings in a truck I used to have, which of course included changing the head gasket. These jobs worked out fine. She could probably get the work "mechanic" to do it again, but then we'll probably have butterscotch pudding in the radiator again, and perhaps coolant in the oil.

Any advice/caveats/pithy rejoinders?

 

[simple_gifts]

I vote you are the better qualified for this job. 8)

When suspicion is part of the mix, the situation is poisoned, even for all subsequent people working on the vehicle.

Perhaps a photo documentary is in order?

 

[cmf]

Ugh, nothing worse than having incompetent people work on your car. I hope she didn't pay much for his "help". Since the cause of failure is overheating, it is good you are taking it to a machine shop to have it tested, because it might have warped.

It sounds like you know what you're doing, so all I have to offer you is http://hmaservice.com . Sign up for an account and you'll get free access to Hyundai service manuals (her Elantra model is XD). The ones for the older models aren't quite as nice as newer models but it should help.

 

[sciphi]

Those Beta engines are pretty easy to work on. Removing the head on one should be fairly straightforward. I'd look at getting new head bolts instead of using the ones presently used.

When was the timing belt/water pump last done? I'd replace those since they need to come off anyhow to get the head off.

Also, probably setting the engine's #1 cylinder to TDC before everything comes apart will help in getting everything back together. The Beta is an interference motor, so knowing where everything's lining up is critical.

Things I'd look at replacing/repairing in addition to the head gasket:
1. Timing belt/waterpump (timing belt needs to be done every 60k miles on this car)
2. Accessory drive belts
3. Thermostat
4. Upper and lower radiator hoses (oil probably isn't good for them)
5. Intake manifold/exhaust manifold gaskets (if torn on removal)
6. Take the radiator to a shop to be cleaned out
7. Oil change after it's all back together
8. PCV valve (careful with this, as the plastic around it likes to get brittle)

I'd flush the cooling system thoroughly one section at a time (radiator, engine, then heater core) before beginning to get all of the butterscotch/mayonnaise out, then flush again once it's all back together to get any last traces out. A Dex-clone antifreeze should be fine to use in this cooling system.

I used to have a 1999 Elantra with the same motor as in your 2003, and did a lot of work on it myself.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Those Beta engines are pretty easy to work on. Removing the head on one should be fairly straightforward. I'd look at getting new head bolts instead of using the ones presently used.

When was the timing belt/water pump last done? I'd replace those since they need to come off anyhow to get the head off.

Also, probably setting the engine's #1 cylinder to TDC before everything comes apart will help in getting everything back together. The Beta is an interference motor, so knowing where everything's lining up is critical.

Things I'd look at replacing/repairing in addition to the head gasket:
1. Timing belt/waterpump (timing belt needs to be done every 60k miles on this car)
2. Accessory drive belts
3. Thermostat
4. Upper and lower radiator hoses (oil probably isn't good for them)
5. Intake manifold/exhaust manifold gaskets (if torn on removal)
6. Take the radiator to a shop to be cleaned out
7. Oil change after it's all back together
8. PCV valve (careful with this, as the plastic around it likes to get brittle)

I'd flush the cooling system thoroughly one section at a time (radiator, engine, then heater core) before beginning to get all of the butterscotch/mayonnaise out, then flush again once it's all back together to get any last traces out. A Dex-clone antifreeze should be fine to use in this cooling system.

I used to have a 1999 Elantra with the same motor as in your 2003, and did a lot of work on it myself.


I'm sure I need to replace the accessory belts since they're covered in oil.

I'll find out from her when the timing belt was last changed. Thermostat's a great idea too since IME Hyundai thermostats aren't exactly bulletproof (my Dad has an Elantra too, and I've replaced his). Fortunately, I have a local radiator shop that I've used for years, maybe even decades, so I'll take the radiator to him and see if he can flush it or if he wants to rod it or whatever.

Apparently the guy who did this work is also the kind of guy who thinks girls can't possibly understand anything about cars. The last time she had oil in the coolant, she told him, and he said, "No it doesn't," without even looking at the car. Seems like kind of a boob, really. She's actually pretty careful about keeping fluids topped up and changed and whatnot. I guess she hadn't checked the radiator recently since he had assured her that everything was OK.

 

[mechtech2]

A really good flush of the cooling system is needed, after the head is back on.
Also change the engine oil.
Do you need TTL bolts? You normally can't use the old ones.
New spark plugs are a good idea, too.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A really good flush of the cooling system is needed, after the head is back on.
Also change the engine oil.
Do you need TTL bolts? You normally can't use the old ones.
New spark plugs are a good idea, too.


Everything I've looked at said to replace the head bolts, so, yeah, I was planning to.

And thank all of you all for your help.

 

[Stelth]

I just got off the phone with my daughter and things may be worse than I thought. She said that the "mechanic" had told her after he did the head that they were careful to do a good job and had even sanded the block. Sanded the block?! What the [censored] does that mean? I've heard of re-surfacing the block and head, of course, and I hope this guy didn't really run sandpaper up and down the block. I understand that the gasket has to be completely removed, etc., but I don't see where any sanding would come into play here.

 

[sciphi]

Does he mean scraped the old gasket material off with an emery cloth, or used sandpaper?!? I hope it's the first. Else, who knows what damage he could have done.

 

[The_Eric]

Lots of good info in this thread - definitely enough to get you going on the right path. Like was already said, the Beta is an easy engine to work on and should be well within your scope of abilities.

One more thing is to check the exhaust manifold for cracks as they very prone to it. Unfortunately if it is, you'll have to replace it and the converter too (it's attached).

As for the sanding, don't worry too much about that right now because it'd take some serious dedication to ruin the deck of a block by hand sanding. If he used an actual sander pad (Roloc style) on a high speed air grinder, or an electric 4" or 4 1/2" sander then you may have problems. Hopefully "sanding" is just a generic term for using an air sander and a Roloc Scotch Brite pad... One of those generally wont hurt an iron deck surface.

 

[Stelth]

UPDATE: There's a well-known, well-thought-of, and not terribly expensive machine shop in town. They tested the head, and took .003" off, so re-assembly time is here. Got a set of Fel-Pro gaskets, a new thermostat, and a new set of head bolts from the Hyundai dealer. Napa lists the head bolts, but they're apparently back ordered from the factory and weeks away. At the dealer, the bolts were about 15 bucks more, but c'est la vie, eh?

Discovered that the exhaust manifold gasket was obviously leaking, the intake manifold gasket was cracked and otherwise damaged, and worst of all, the previous "mechanic" did not use new head bolts. I've been doing mechanical work for most of my adult life (not on engines), and I know people make mistakes, but the sheer number of screw-ups I found during disassembly makes me think that this guy is either utterly helpless or was drunk during most of the job. For instance, I could easily feel that the tightness of the exhaust manifold bolts was uneven. The gasket was black on the outer two ports and shiny on the inner ports. As I mentioned, the intake manifold gasket was also damaged. I'd like to have a few minutes alone with this goober.

Anyway, pics are coming, along with more progress reports. Thanks again for your help.

Oh, also, there seems to be almost no taper in the cylinders, so I'm hopeful for a long future life for this engine.

 

[The_Eric]

Thanks for the update! Keep us posted...