I have a Hydrogear G730 and have been running M1 15W-50 for the past 400 hours. No issues. It sounds the same as with the factory fill but whines less in sub 40 degree temps. That’s about it.
Hydrogear Transmission spec 20w50 is 15w50 ok?
- Thread starter hgh623
- Start date
OK. As stated by the manufacturer's requirements for cSt the 0w40 is maybe compliant, but pretty close to the line.
One question: I think Hydrogear states the required minimum cSt at 120 celsius, and the oil specs usually give it at 100 celsius. So at 120, it would be a bit thinner. I think it may not be a bad idea to have some extra margin on the cSt, no?
The 0w winter number probably does not matter much, unless you operate the Hydro in cold winter weather.. . I view that strictly as
a cold start benefit if needed. At operating temp, the low number (IMO) makes no difference. Keep in mind: Depending on the formulation, to achieve 0w may require extra additives. As I recall I read this when learning about the GTL based oils, which do require extra additives to get to
0w. If we do not need to lower the extra low temp pour point, I think we are better off without those additives.
This is my thinking on 0w: Go there only if you must, because of very cold weather starts expected.
What is the consensus/opinion on detergent or non-detergent oil? Is detergent useful or not in this application?
Does anybody use/recommend Redline 15w50? Should have high level anti-wear additives, and a Polyol Ester based lubricant may have some advantage over whatever (mostly unknown, trade secret) base stocks the less expensive synthetics use. These Ester base stocks are used in
verry hot running aircraft jet engines, and the hydro is a hot environment.
Money is no object in this case to me, I am just looking for the best wear protection, and lowest operating temp I can achieve.
One question: I think Hydrogear states the required minimum cSt at 120 celsius, and the oil specs usually give it at 100 celsius. So at 120, it would be a bit thinner. I think it may not be a bad idea to have some extra margin on the cSt, no?
The 0w winter number probably does not matter much, unless you operate the Hydro in cold winter weather.. . I view that strictly as
a cold start benefit if needed. At operating temp, the low number (IMO) makes no difference. Keep in mind: Depending on the formulation, to achieve 0w may require extra additives. As I recall I read this when learning about the GTL based oils, which do require extra additives to get to
0w. If we do not need to lower the extra low temp pour point, I think we are better off without those additives.
This is my thinking on 0w: Go there only if you must, because of very cold weather starts expected.
What is the consensus/opinion on detergent or non-detergent oil? Is detergent useful or not in this application?
Does anybody use/recommend Redline 15w50? Should have high level anti-wear additives, and a Polyol Ester based lubricant may have some advantage over whatever (mostly unknown, trade secret) base stocks the less expensive synthetics use. These Ester base stocks are used in
verry hot running aircraft jet engines, and the hydro is a hot environment.
Money is no object in this case to me, I am just looking for the best wear protection, and lowest operating temp I can achieve.
OK thanks. Does anybody use Redline 15w50? Opinions?
Maybe I am over-thinking this, but maybe a good oil for this application.
Ester base stock, with high level of anti-wear additives.
Polyol Ester based oils are supposed to be really good in high-temp environments such as aircraft (jet) engines.
Afaik the base stock dissolves additives well, so it does not need carrier oil ( usually dyno) for the additives.
Maybe I am over-thinking this, but maybe a good oil for this application.
Ester base stock, with high level of anti-wear additives.
Polyol Ester based oils are supposed to be really good in high-temp environments such as aircraft (jet) engines.
Afaik the base stock dissolves additives well, so it does not need carrier oil ( usually dyno) for the additives.
Run this
"Mobil 1 0w40 rating at 110° C is 10.2." This statement is as is. Not a typo. Secondly, your above statement is inaccurate many ways. Cut and paste from the service manual. "Hydro-Gear's recommends minimum rating of 9.0 cSt (55 SUS) at 230° F (110° C)." Coder decides to only think after reading this sentence. Why?
Why not just get the Hydro-Gear Service Kit?
https://www.hydrogear.com/oil/
Or you could get the oil from Exmark and double the service interval. From the Exmark owners manual:
Exmark Premium Hydro Oil is recommended.
Hydro Oil Service Interval
Exmark Premium Hydro
Oil (Preferred)
After first 75 hours
*Every 500 hours
thereafter
Mobil 1 15W50 After first 75 hours
*Every 250 hours
thereafter
https://www.hydrogear.com/oil/
Or you could get the oil from Exmark and double the service interval. From the Exmark owners manual:
Exmark Premium Hydro Oil is recommended.
Hydro Oil Service Interval
Exmark Premium Hydro
Oil (Preferred)
After first 75 hours
*Every 500 hours
thereafter
Mobil 1 15W50 After first 75 hours
*Every 250 hours
thereafter
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Sorry, I was looking at their msds for the 0w40 here:https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/na-xx-mobil-1-fs-0w-40
which gave the viscosity as: 12.9 cSt (12.9 mm2/sec) at 100°C [ASTM D 445] . The cSt you mentioned at 120 °C makes perfect sense.
I am actually a fan of the 0w40 M-1 foreign spec, used it in my Cla250 with great results.
I would like to better understand the motivation and the advantage in going with a lighter oil vs the factory recommended 20w50.
I now understand that the 0w40 is within "spec" for this application, but why not 20w50? I actually have a bunch of 0w40 left over after
I totalled my Benz, and I would love to use it, this is why I am asking.
===
I have so far been avoiding Amsoil because I dislike how it is so aggressively marketed.
Won't tell us anything about their formulation, except speaking in marketing terms, asserting it is so incredibly good.
I tend to be suspicious of brilliant marketing.
OTOH they are refusing to disclose what base stock they are using. Looking at the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) reveals some information about what goes into it: https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/msds/ahf.pdf
Notice "Hydrogenated base oil" . Based on the percentage ( 1-5%) , that looks like Group 3 carrier oil. They are not saying, but this implies a PAO base stock. PAO is a known poor solvent of additives, necessitating the non-synthetic carrier oil.
The MSDS is a often an useful reference, you can "decode" the double-digit % ingredients, if they list them.
For example, from the MSDS of the 0w40 M1:
1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED (10-20%) is PAO.
I think ..BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR (50-60%) refers to GTL
So this oil looks like their new, reformulated 0w40, which is now mostly GTL based.
which gave the viscosity as: 12.9 cSt (12.9 mm2/sec) at 100°C [ASTM D 445] . The cSt you mentioned at 120 °C makes perfect sense.
I am actually a fan of the 0w40 M-1 foreign spec, used it in my Cla250 with great results.
I would like to better understand the motivation and the advantage in going with a lighter oil vs the factory recommended 20w50.
I now understand that the 0w40 is within "spec" for this application, but why not 20w50? I actually have a bunch of 0w40 left over after
I totalled my Benz, and I would love to use it, this is why I am asking.
===
I have so far been avoiding Amsoil because I dislike how it is so aggressively marketed.
Won't tell us anything about their formulation, except speaking in marketing terms, asserting it is so incredibly good.
I tend to be suspicious of brilliant marketing.
OTOH they are refusing to disclose what base stock they are using. Looking at the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) reveals some information about what goes into it: https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/msds/ahf.pdf
Notice "Hydrogenated base oil" . Based on the percentage ( 1-5%) , that looks like Group 3 carrier oil. They are not saying, but this implies a PAO base stock. PAO is a known poor solvent of additives, necessitating the non-synthetic carrier oil.
The MSDS is a often an useful reference, you can "decode" the double-digit % ingredients, if they list them.
For example, from the MSDS of the 0w40 M1:
1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED (10-20%) is PAO.
I think ..BRANCHED, CYCLIC AND LINEAR (50-60%) refers to GTL
So this oil looks like their new, reformulated 0w40, which is now mostly GTL based.
Not to hijack the thread but I have oil analysis data on Napa 15w-50 syn oil in a hydrogear 2200 with 66hrs. The separate UOA data is for the left and right side transmission. I did spike it with 18g with Redline ZDDP additive. That is how I got Zn/P over 1000+ ppm.
66hrs Napa 15w-50 Oil analysis
66hrs Napa 15w-50 Oil analysis
Just asking. Didn't do it. That was 7 years ago, I asked. I used Mobil 1 15w50. I thought about using there 5w50, but wasn't widely available. The next one down was 0w40, which is why I asked. Works just as good as 20w50.
Regarding the Hydrogear branded oil: Maybe it is the best thing since sliced bread. But, we know nothing about its composition,
base stock, etc. They do not even say it is a synthetic oil. At least I have not seen that stated. did I miss it?
It is another case of "mother knows best" when I am just supposed to blindly trust a manufacturer's vague claims.
For all we know, it could be a group 3 or dyno based oil, with boosted anti-wear additives.
"Superior performance" is a meaningless marketing claim to me. I tend to shop for Maximum value for my $$.
Tell me what is in it, and make a rational case why I should shell out the $$ for it, and I will be all over it.
How do I know they are not selling me an inexpensive formulation for top $$, so the main benefit is to their bottom line? It is easy for a manufacturer to leverage the goodwill that comes from being perceived as the authority on the "best" maintenance products, and many shamelessly profit from this. I tend to be suspicious, the more disclosure I get for a product, the more I tend to trust it.
Are they (Hydrogear) willing to put their money where their mouth isd? Like, if I use their specialty tx fluid, will they extend my warranty on the hydros? The they do make a claim "it lasts twice as long" but that is non-binding.
I would sooner use the 15W50 Stens Shield, at least that claims to be fully synthetic.
base stock, etc. They do not even say it is a synthetic oil. At least I have not seen that stated. did I miss it?
It is another case of "mother knows best" when I am just supposed to blindly trust a manufacturer's vague claims.
For all we know, it could be a group 3 or dyno based oil, with boosted anti-wear additives.
"Superior performance" is a meaningless marketing claim to me. I tend to shop for Maximum value for my $$.
Tell me what is in it, and make a rational case why I should shell out the $$ for it, and I will be all over it.
How do I know they are not selling me an inexpensive formulation for top $$, so the main benefit is to their bottom line? It is easy for a manufacturer to leverage the goodwill that comes from being perceived as the authority on the "best" maintenance products, and many shamelessly profit from this. I tend to be suspicious, the more disclosure I get for a product, the more I tend to trust it.
Are they (Hydrogear) willing to put their money where their mouth isd? Like, if I use their specialty tx fluid, will they extend my warranty on the hydros? The they do make a claim "it lasts twice as long" but that is non-binding.
I would sooner use the 15W50 Stens Shield, at least that claims to be fully synthetic.
This has been discussed on lawnsite numerous times..There's a shop owner on there (HydroMan#1). He works on them day in and day out.
This is what he says.
https://www.lawnsite.com/threads/hy...s-and-wheel-motors.412974/page-7#post-6285915
My experience is this.
Manufacture oils like Exmarks hydro oil I always see catastrophic failure inside vs one that ran Mobile one 15w-50 inside.
I have had great luck running Lucas 20w-50 motorcycle oil in the Transaxles.
I only stock two types of hydro oil (which is just full synthetic motor oil) Lucas 20w-50 and Mobile one 15w-50.
This is what he says.
https://www.lawnsite.com/threads/hy...s-and-wheel-motors.412974/page-7#post-6285915
My experience is this.
Manufacture oils like Exmarks hydro oil I always see catastrophic failure inside vs one that ran Mobile one 15w-50 inside.
I have had great luck running Lucas 20w-50 motorcycle oil in the Transaxles.
I only stock two types of hydro oil (which is just full synthetic motor oil) Lucas 20w-50 and Mobile one 15w-50.
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"Always see catastrophic failure" may be a bit of an exaggeration.
Reality is probably a bit more nuanced. I get it that hydroman is a convinced proponent of the 2 synthetic oils mentioned, and I am not against using those products at all.
In fact I am using the M-1 15w50 myself.
But I have a hard time accepting that using anything else will inevitably lead to Hydro failure...
. AFAIK, the Ariens/Gravely branded hydro oil is actually rebadged
M1 15W50, so at least one manufacturer branded fluid is OK. (though a bit overpriced)
Reality is probably a bit more nuanced. I get it that hydroman is a convinced proponent of the 2 synthetic oils mentioned, and I am not against using those products at all.
In fact I am using the M-1 15w50 myself.
But I have a hard time accepting that using anything else will inevitably lead to Hydro failure...
. AFAIK, the Ariens/Gravely branded hydro oil is actually rebadgedM1 15W50, so at least one manufacturer branded fluid is OK. (though a bit overpriced)
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