Hello guys! So in my quest to find the best oil filter for my 97 GMC Sierra 5.7 Vortec and 1996 Caprice V8(takes same filter) I was comparing these filters and noticed the top round inlet holes were vastly different. This is my last old Napa Gold 1036 from 2021 that has holes in the center tube and not louvers. Its an early Mann Hummel. The holes are huge on the top of the filter. The Pentius PLXL3980 has tiny holes compared to the Napa. The AC Delco has large holes and waaaaaay more of them. I was sold on the Pentius3980 after reading on here how good they are but the tiny holes make me nervous they wont flow enough. It is also noticeably shorter and smaller overall. What do you guys think about these filter and how they will work on my engines? Thanks for any help figuring this out!
Huge difference between Pentus PLXL3980, Napa Gold 1036 and AC Delco PF52E
- Thread starter Chris B.
- Start date
The Pentius has more, but smaller holes than the NAPA Gold, while the AC Delco is almost nothing but holes. Unfortunately, except for being able to see down into the center tube, the great unknown is the construction of the media and pressure valve without cutting one open.
Where was the Pentius manufactured? Some are Korea while others are China. Thank you for posting the pictures.
Where was the Pentius manufactured? Some are Korea while others are China. Thank you for posting the pictures.
All of those base plates will have a pretty low dP at a high flow rate. Sure, it "looks" better and "higher flow performance", but any difference isn't going to make any difference that matters in terms of flow to the engine, because of the PD oil pump. What really matters is the dP across the whole filter assembly, and the dP across the media to set the bypass valve correctly. It could be the filters with more and/or bigger holes have media that's a bit more restrictive, so they try to make up a PSI or two difference in the base plate holes.
Wonder how many people buy an oil filter based on the holes in the base plate. I'm thinking a lot.
Wonder how many people buy an oil filter based on the holes in the base plate. I'm thinking a lot.
Only those who are members of BITOG. Others go by price, brand recognition due to marketing, or they like one color more than another.
3,744 posts and you don't know how a P/D pump works, or how filter media can affect D/P across the filter?
Z covered the basics. I am amazed at how many people on this board don't understand the P/D pump.
Z covered the basics. I am amazed at how many people on this board don't understand the P/D pump.
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Over the years, I have ran many different filters on my ‘98 K1500. Filtering efficiency varied I’m sure but never had an issue with flow rate, based on observed oil pressure from dash gauge, with any of them.
I currently have a Carquest Premium 85036 on it with no issues.
I currently have a Carquest Premium 85036 on it with no issues.
The filter can only flow through as much oil as will come out the center hole, and its not the size of the filter hole but the inside of the tube into which it threads.
So there is more resistance on many small holes vs one large hole, still a M20 threaded hole likely is 15mm diameter at most. If you add up the area on the small holes of any of those filters its likely much, much larger.
So there is more resistance on many small holes vs one large hole, still a M20 threaded hole likely is 15mm diameter at most. If you add up the area on the small holes of any of those filters its likely much, much larger.
Color is definitely the most important spec. By far.
I've done dP calculations for the inlet holes of a Pentius XL7317, which are probably the same size (4.8 mm diameter). The estimate was 3.4 psi at 16 GPM, and 1.8 psi at a more reasonable 10 GPM. This doesn't account for the fact that the thick part of the ADBV tends to partially cover the holes on these filters, so the dP could be somewhat higher than this.
The PXL filters tend to have a lot of media, so don't worry about the smaller canister size. I've been keeping track of media area for oil filters, and on average, PXL filters have around 40% more media than AC Delco filters, and more than any other aftermarket filter. They also have a centre core with very low restriction. Their overall restriction is probably average or better, despite their smaller inlet holes.
The PXL filters tend to have a lot of media, so don't worry about the smaller canister size. I've been keeping track of media area for oil filters, and on average, PXL filters have around 40% more media than AC Delco filters, and more than any other aftermarket filter. They also have a centre core with very low restriction. Their overall restriction is probably average or better, despite their smaller inlet holes.
AC Delco is still good just a base plate redesign they did a while back,
probably not for long though.
I bet a plumber who's not a BITOG member who buys oil filters looks at the base plate, and picks a filter with more and bigger holes, even if it cost a little more because his brain will say that "more and bigger holes is better".
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A master plumber, who loathes AC Delco due to a bad experience, would be able to quickly calculate the volume of oil which could enter through each filter's six or eight holes based on their diameter at a given pressure, assuming both ADBVs have the same resistance to the inward flow, of course.I bet a plumber who's not a BITOG member who buys oil filters looks at the base plate, and picks a filter with more and bigger holes, even if it cost a little more because his brain will say that "more and bigger holes is better".
You do realize that the I.D. of the main oil galley is only 1/2 inch. Now go add up the number of holes x their o.d.and you will see there's plenty of space for oil.
I doubt he could come up with the dP vs flow curve in his head by looking at it, and he would have to use fluid dynamics calculations to determine what the actual dP vs flow would be. I just posted this thread ... check it out.
This is what I'm referring to:
The thicker part of the ADBV that's pressed up against the base plate partially covers the inlet holes. It probably won't move much at all with oil flow. It might block around 20% of the inlet hole area, and the inlet holes on this filter are already on the smaller side. Given the non-linear area-dP relationship at high flow, this could increase the dP by over 40%, maybe a lot more if it causes a lot more turbulence. I'm not entirely convinced that it wouldn't double the dP, which would put it on par with the most restrictive base plates I've come across.
It's still not enough dP to matter in most applications. This filter is currently on my turbo Subaru, a high flow application where this matters a bit more. I'm comfortable using since the rest of the filter should have low restriction, and it has a low bypass setting, but I'll be switching it to a different model of PXL filter with larger inlet holes at the next OCI.
Yeah, when the dP is only 3 PSI to start with at a super high flow rate with no hole restriction factor, even a 40% increase above that (1.2 PSI) probably isn't going to make any real difference in keeping the engine well supplied with oil flow. And how often are you at redline and pumping 16 GPM on the streets?
If it turns out it's more like a doubling of dP, it would be 7 psi, versus ~2 psi for an OEM filter.
I mostly drive like an old man these days, and my oil temperatures remain low enough that that the oil pump probably isn't flowing much more than 12 GPM due to pressure relief. This particular engine should also have a very healthy safety margin in terms of oil pressure. So, no, that 5 psi doesn't really matter in my particular case. I mean, it still bothers me, but only due to my unhealthy obsession with engine oiling systems.
While it might not matter much in my application, I don't want anybody reading my comments to come to the conclusion that oil filter dP never matters, because I think it can often be important. Rod bearings are very sensitive to oil pressure at high rpm, and sometimes that extra 5 psi can be the difference between a bit of extra bearing wear and a spun bearing.
In isolation, that additional dP doesn't matter, but add in some other factors that reduce oil pressure, like clogged filters or oil passages, high oil filter bypass valve pressure, high oil temperature, aeration, foaming, oil pump cavitation, etc, and it will sometimes make all the difference.
Every day, somewhere out there, there are rod bearings that spin, that wouldn't have spun if not for an oil filter that was more restrictive than it needed to be. It's so cheap and easy to make an oil filter with low canister restriction, that it irks me when I see them poorly designed (or recommended for the wrong application).
In post 17 you said: "Given the non-linear area-dP relationship at high flow, this could increase the dP by over 40%". So now it's doubled, meaning a 100% increase? Any ADBV and base plate design where the ADBV can block any incoming flow isn't ideal. Still in your example, I doubt it's going to cause any real oil supply issues when there would still be a large amount of oil flow going into the engine. No engine should be designed to be that sensitive to the flow resistance of a properly designed oil filter when the filter is typically only 1/15th the flow resistance of the oiling system.
If I was really worried about the oil filter on a Subaru, I'd be trying to get actual dP vs flow data on the whole filter assembly. Maybe you could get BR to test some Subaru filters, as nobody even really knows the dP vs flow performance curve of the OEM filter - that would be interesting info. It could flow worse than most think it should. Could be why it has a high bypass valve setting. How many Subarues have blown up on the race track because the oil filter was too restrictive?
The difference in dP vs flow between oil filters for about every street engine in existence shouldn't really matter. Hence, the is no such thing as "flow over filtration" as I discuss in the thread I posted.
Maybe in an extreme case, like a high pump volume Subaru, or someone flat out racing on a track at redline with thicker oil and an engine with a very high flow oil pump. If the difference spread of 5 PSI of dP between oil filters at 10+ GPM of flow was so critical, you'd see a lot of engines damaged or worn out way too early.
Another reason to not run oil filters for crazy miles unless it's rated as a high capacity filter. And never go to the race track with a loaded oil filter. Most guys that race their cars a lot will be changing (or should be if they aren't) oil and filters way more often than normal street driving guys will.
I really don't believe that "restrictive" oil filters (unless they are super loaded beyond what they should be) are causing spun journal bearings every day on the roads - because as shown pretty much all oil filters have a dP within a few PSI at very high flow rates. I'm sure you saw my thread about "flow over filtration" which shows this. The dP spread between all of those shown filters is only 3-4 PSI. The low efficiency Toyota filter doesn't give anyone better flow because it's believed that Toyota adheres to "flow over filtration". None of those filters that BR tested dP vs flow on are going to cause any oil supply issue that's going to spin any journal bearing. People that race their car are most likely going to run a filter with a lower dP vs flow (f they have the data to decide on a filter) even if it's only a few PSI of dP lower, just to make them feel better about flow.
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