HT/HS viscosity and cSt @ 100 degrees

[TallPaul]

Oh, sorry. I guess I am not reading enough posts as I don't even recall seeing his name before. Looks like he has only been here two weeks. Well, hopefully he tightens up his writing and focuses his comments better in the future.

One final comment to 06VtecV6: Hey, if you want a super robust 5w20 go for Redline. HTS around 3.3 IIRC.

 

[06VtecV6]

Tall Paul,

Thanks man. Redline is not widely available and I like getting 2.65 HT/HS and pay only peanuts at Wal-Mart. I love Wal-Mart and it is the greatest place in this world to get a little sanity from high prices and constant running around and to just be at eaze and discount shop. It's just a bonus to get things cheap at your local Walmart!

I think when an OP, me, starts this thread and it becomes hot, these superfluous posts just add more dead weight to the story. Weight, sure, but dead weight and I think people generally ignore these posts and make it hot by viewing it because they are interested in the subject and the responses that are germaine to the OPs post.

 

[hominid7]

If i can jump in and ask a similar question.....

If we look at the same oil, take pennzoil conventional, and look at their viscosity and ht/hs numbers we see the following:

Pennzoil 5w30
Vis @ 100*C = 10.5
HT/HS Vis = 3.0
Vis Index = 158

and then compare that to Pennzoil 10w30:

Vis @ 100*C = 10.4
HT/HS Vis = 3.1
Vis Index = 135

Can we assume from the above that the difference between 5w30 and 10w30, in this particular situation, is really so little as to be a non factor when choosing one over the other for hot weather driving?

I have continued to research, read, and experiment with the differences between 5w30 and 10w30 in my car. Owners manual allows for 5w30 up to 98*F and 10w30 down to -13*F. Of course that was written with 2000 year oils in mind, not the SM oils of today.

Can i make the assumption that pennzoil 5w30 will do everything that pennzoil 10w30 will do, and then some? Or should i switch to 10w30 for the summer?

For the record, Mazda says they stand by the owners manual, yet the dealership says to use 5w30 year-round even in Texas... I love it when 2 arms of the same body disagree

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm still waiting for someone to comment on my earlier post. I said I didn't think a decrease in viscosity translated to an increase in slipperiness because I'm thinking that viscosity and slipperiness are not related. Usually when my posts go unanswered it means I'm right.

 

[TallPaul]

Well all I have heard on Motorcraft oils is good. You should be fine. Redline would be overkill. I would run Redline maybe if I had an older 4 banger that I was constantly redlining just to keep up in traffic.

There does not seem to be a significant difference between the two Pennzoil grades listed above for the parameters given. Don't think it matters which you use, but I always bias towards the higher front W number on the idea it has a thicker base oil and maybe will be a bit more robust. Might be nice to see what the two oils look like after some severe hot weather service.

Not sure how slickness (slipperiness) is defined in oils. For sure adding moly should make the oil slicker, but whether a thinner oil is slicker than a thicker oil, I don't think so. Sure the thinner oil will flow faster, but that is not slickness. I think we have to factor out viscosity differences before trying to determine slickness and then likely only a change in oil formulation (say Group II to ester, or adding moly) would result in slicker oil. So yeah, I think you are right.

 

[06VtecV6]

Quote:

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Well all I have heard on Motorcraft oils is good. You should be fine. Redline would be overkill. I would run Redline maybe if I had an older 4 banger that I was constantly redlining just to keep up in traffic.

There does not seem to be a significant difference between the two Pennzoil grades listed above for the parameters given. Don't think it matters which you use, but I always bias towards the higher front W number on the idea it has a thicker base oil and maybe will be a bit more robust. Might be nice to see what the two oils look like after some severe hot weather service.

Not sure how slickness (slipperiness) is defined in oils. For sure adding moly should make the oil slicker, but whether a thinner oil is slicker than a thicker oil, I don't think so. Sure the thinner oil will flow faster, but that is not slickness. I think we have to factor out viscosity differences before trying to determine slickness and then likely only a change in oil formulation (say Group II to ester, or adding moly) would result in slicker oil. So yeah, I think you are right.

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The two oils I compared earlier were PP versus MC.

...............PP.............MC
cst @100 8.45...........8.8
HT/HS.... 2.7.............2.65
VI......... 164.............161


Tall Paul, do you think I should try MC for a second OCI or go straight to PP? MC has a cst @ 100 of 8.8 versus PP cst @ 100 of 8.45? MC has an HTHS of 2.65 and VI of 161 versus PP with HTHS of 2.70 and VI of 164. What do you think? The MC has given me a tremendous boost when I first put in and is what I am using right now but this is my first OCI with MC. Should I give it another OCI or try PP in hopes the full GRP III synthetic will be thinner at 100 degrees at 8.45 but still protect in high heat with 2.7 HTHS? I realize that good oils are rare and I don't want to give up on MC prematurely just because there potentially might be a better oil at only about 4 bucks more if I get it at BOGOF. Ofcourse, I haven't tried full synthetic because I won't go back to a blend if I go full synthetic. Is there any advantage to staying with a blend over a full synthetic? Do you see any reason for staying with MC for the second OCI or trying PP now since I can probably get it for BOGOF and it's numbers are better namely the cst @ 100 of 8.45, HT/HS of 2.7 and VI of 164 versus MC whose cst @ 100 is 8.8, HT/HS of 2.7 and VI of 2.65?

 

[06VtecV6]

I think I am leaning towards PP for a few reasons:

1. Although I have not checked recently, I believe AAP is running that special again. I cannot confirm this but if it is true, I can get 5 qts for around 15 bucks(buy 2 at AAP and get two free for a total of 4 and get the final quart at Wal Mart for 4 bucks) which is about 3 dollars more then the MC. You're looking at a difference of only 3 bucks and I paid 23 bucks for my first case of DC at the Dis. Plant.

2. The only thing that is causing me some anguish is I am not giving MC the minimum 2 OCIs to see what it can really and ultimately do. What do you think?

 

[TallPaul]

Might as well go for the PP on special. Either of these oils would be fine and the differences are minimal. You could always boost the 100C viscosity using one quart of a thicker grade, like go 4 qts 5w20 and 1 qt 5w30. You can switch off between full synthetic and conventional with no problems. Hey, if you can find Maxlife in the 5w20 it might be worth a shot as it has a good slug (300 ppm) of friction reducing, slippery moly. Maxlife also has some PAO as a blend. Not sure the HTHS, but I bet it is higher than either you mentioned. Valvoline tech folks could tell you. If you find out let us know.

 

[06VtecV6]

Do I need to boost the viscosity necessarily though? Isn't the lower viscosity an advantage when HT/HS is higher?

I do not mix oils. I am not trying to make the oil thicker per so, I just want to know how PP can have a slightly better HT/HS with an oil that is thinner at 100 degrees.

Do you think the higher VI with PP is due to VII? If it does, then does the lower cst at 100 make it a good thing or not a good thing?

MaxLife blend has PAO? I must have missed the proof. Can you tell me where I can substantiate that?

Thanks TP.

 

[TallPaul]

Either oil will be fine. I would guess the PP has a higher quality base oil, which may be contributing to the slightly higher HTHS, or the base is a tad thicker.

Go to Valvoline.com. Look up Maxlife. Click for MSDS. Enter Maxlife. Look at the composition on about the first or second page. There will be a CAS number for the 12-22% component. Search that CAS number here and you should find the experts like MolaKule have identified it as PAO.

 

[92saturnsl2]

And there's no arguing with the CAS #. It's listed on OSHA, search google with the CAS#, and you'll know exactly what it is. Maxlife (synthetic only) is using a good portion of PAO.

 

[06VtecV6]

Quote:

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And there's no arguing with the CAS #. It's listed on OSHA, search google with the CAS#, and you'll know exactly what it is. Maxlife (synthetic only) is using a good portion of PAO.

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Only problem with Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic is I do not think they make it in 5w-20.