Here's the base HPL PCMO 5/30 VOA:
HPL PCMO 5/30 (Base) VOA
- Thread starter MVAR
- Start date
7864ppm Sulfur. What is that? It says additive. Maybe associated with the molybdenum.
I'm not sure. Maybe one of the forum gurus will chime in to educate the rest of us
dnewton3
Staff member
I do understand that many elements which show up have multiple forms ("zinc" for example has many forms such as ZDDP, etc)
But I do have to wonder why so much sulfur??? Generally that is corrosive when it is combined with moisture (sulfuric acid), and also VERY detrimental to catalytic converters. (Hence ultra low sulfur fuels ...)
So is that sulfur in some form that otherwise does little harm because it's some variant of "normal" sulphur?
And is that why the TBN is so incredibly high; to offset the anticipated sulfuric acid from extended OCI?
But I do have to wonder why so much sulfur??? Generally that is corrosive when it is combined with moisture (sulfuric acid), and also VERY detrimental to catalytic converters. (Hence ultra low sulfur fuels ...)
So is that sulfur in some form that otherwise does little harm because it's some variant of "normal" sulphur?
And is that why the TBN is so incredibly high; to offset the anticipated sulfuric acid from extended OCI?
The TBN of 17.94 explains why a certain Member here was able to go 30,000 miles on this Oil.
The sulfur and crazy high tbn got my attention too. I know it’s a great oil, just wondering…
The magnesium is 2000+ ppm that very high.
A conversation with Dave of HPL suggested 10k OCI and a filter every 5K. A high base number would make sense.
Wasn't the Royal Purple Synerlec additive a heavy sulphur-based additive? People used to speak pretty highly of it.
I also posted this oil after doing 5k mi run of mostly all city driving/short trips in my wife’s nearly 185k mi 13 Fusion 2.0 ecoboost TDGI. Figured it would be a decent test for it was the EB motors are known to be tough on oil. First UOA was the incorrect one & the lab reran the test. Actual test results are on pg2 of linked thread.
2013 Fusion 2.0 Ecoboost HPL PCMO 5/30
Got a reply from the lab. They’re going to rerun the sample tomorrow.
bobistheoilguy.com
Thanks for the post , I have the 5w30 no-VII pcmo in my mazda right now.
MolaKule
Staff member
Sulfur containing compounds in lubricant Additives:
ZDDP (an ester of Zn[(S2P(OR)2]2); Zinc, Sulfur, and phosphorus.
Spikes, H. "The History and Mechanisms of ZDDP". Tribology Letters. 17 (3): 469–489, (2004-10-01).
Calcium and Magnesium Sulfonates
Molybdenum Dithiocarbamate or MoDTC (recall that a MoDTC compound formula is C4H8MoN4S8), or 4 carbon atoms, 8 hydrogen atoms, one or more moly atoms, 4 nitrogen atoms, and 8 sulfur atoms.
So any DTC compound is on the order of C4H8XxN4S8, where Xx is the metallic element containing one or more of the metallic atoms to create this organo-metallic compound.
More Calcium and Magnesium sulfonate detergent included in the blend will mean more reported sulfur and higher TBN.
Moly additive will do this as well.
I think people just forget that these additives have sulfur.
Moly additive will do this as well.
I think people just forget that these additives have sulfur.
Added to the VOA Database. I'm disappointed that Wearcheck does not test for starting Oxidation on virgin oil. I saw your Used Analysis of this oil and they list Oxidation there. Why not on virgin oil?
I also noticed they use D2896 TBN for both new and used samples. This method is only supposed to be used on virgin oil, never on used oil.
I also noticed they use D2896 TBN for both new and used samples. This method is only supposed to be used on virgin oil, never on used oil.
Was curious about the oxidation value as well.Added to the VOA Database. I'm disappointed that Wearcheck does not test for starting Oxidation on virgin oil. I saw your Used Analysis of this oil and they list Oxidation there. Why not on virgin oil?
I also noticed they use D2896 TBN for both new and used samples. This method is only supposed to be used on virgin oil, never on used oil.
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I can email them to ask a bit later this morning. Already have the managers email as he was the one who expedited the retest of my UOA sample.
Email inquiry sent to Wear Check.Added to the VOA Database. I'm disappointed that Wearcheck does not test for starting Oxidation on virgin oil. I saw your Used Analysis of this oil and they list Oxidation there. Why not on virgin oil?
I also noticed they use D2896 TBN for both new and used samples. This method is only supposed to be used on virgin oil, never on used oil.
View attachment 225045
One of the reasons the TBN is so high is because it was tested with the D2896 method. It's not comparable to most of the TBNs we typically see in VOAs which use D4739. Typically, we see a 2-3 point difference between the two (D2896 being the higher value), but I'm not sure I've ever seen a TBN this high. It's possible that the higher the starting TBN, the bigger difference there is between the two methods. I'm not sure. I'd be curious how much lower this oil's TBN would be if tested under D4739.
So for us less “chemistry-educated”, is the amount of sulphur in the samples considered excessive, or is this something that is average in pretty much most motor oils? All I see is visions of sulfuric acid eating away at my seals!
