I'll have to disagree with this point of states building roads. New Jersey hires only blind people that never ride on the roads of the state. I could never figure out how they can put speed bumps everywhere, but leave a road that desperately needs paving untouched for years.,,
How to tax EVs
- Thread starter LavaRand
- Start date
Well technically the fed builds no roads. They collector money, take their cut, and feed it back to the states. Retaining some dictatorial power in the process.
The the states contract road building out to private companies.
So all that changes is the fed looses their cut.
The issue I have with examples I've seen, is they pick an average car with average MPG of 25 or so and average mileage then apply that flat-rate to the electric cars. Someone thrifty or earth-hugging enough to have an electric car, IMO, would choose something like a Mitsu Mirage if they just had to buy a gas car, and their flat fee should conservatively expect that. In other words the flat fee while marketed as fair, is actually punitive.
This is what I mean earlier by pegging the rate to MPGE - most EV's clock in way above even Pri'i. Some above 100MPGE.
Interestingly of the numerous employees I talk to regularly few to none care about its greenness.
Most tell me charging at home is the game changer and changes the dynamic of car ownership.
If its also happens to be green - thats just a nice byproduct.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
In addition to taxing of EVs , been curious how much truth is there to the stories of the EVs being far too heavy to all be parked in high rise parking garages? We all know there are so many wild rumors that get started and fly just about every time some newer product gets introduced to the general public.
The problem with your idea is that most states don't require annual registrations that document mileage, and doing that would require folks to visit a specific place that would do exactly that.
Mine simply does the exact same thing we already do with gas taxes. It's a flat tax that allows those who use our transportation infrastructure to pay their fair share.
That's it.
Charging at home, especially with solar, has to be experienced to be appreciated. It sounds silly, but it would be a struggle for me to buy another ICE vehicle, unless it's a PU. I have grown to hate going to gas stations, and then there's the bill... Ouch!
Sure there are challenges. But most modern cars have connectivity. There could be a cell phone app...
Make it an annual manual entry with a 3 year (or 5 year) true up. And at time of sale. Who knows?
You're right; I don't know much about all the state's requirements. But if we are gonna charge people, perhaps it could be done right?
If you can't do mileage at least do it on a vehicle weight basis.
Greatly depends on the EV.
Decent sized ones weight about what half tons weighs.
If you arent worried about 1/2 tons then you shoudlbnt be worried about Regular sized EV's.
The GM stuff weighs the most per segment, the teslas the least.
Steel Vs aluminum giant castings vs assemble sub components.
The GM trucks are like collapsing stars 9K+.
The ultimate twofer and the only way to beat "the man".
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I wonder what causes it because the tax isn’t a big part. I suppose the internet knows. I see no reason to whine it doesn’t change it.
You are welcome to pave your own roads you use with your own materials in place of the 45 cents per gal or whatever it is. Of course you can’t possibly pave the roads you use, so we all get together, pay the tax or fee or whatever it’s called doesn’t matter, and have it done. Then we can go on to living in a society. Hermits to society do not have nice roads to their cabin unless they found gold somewhere to pay for the road. They better not go to town and use other peoples roads.
As I've already posted, the simple way to fairly tax all vehicles is to apply a tax based upon usage and weight. Apply this at both the state and federal level and eliminate fuel taxes altogether.
Can't pay the freight?
Then you can't renew your registration and so can't legally operate the vehicle.
Capturing the current mileage on any vehicle is easy enough with no more than visual observation.
Simple!
What about those who register old POS vehicles as "Collector vehicles" or "Antique"?
We probably all see such things run as daily drivers, but there are license plate readers everywhere to catch them.
Can't pay the freight?
Then you can't renew your registration and so can't legally operate the vehicle.
Capturing the current mileage on any vehicle is easy enough with no more than visual observation.
Simple!
What about those who register old POS vehicles as "Collector vehicles" or "Antique"?
We probably all see such things run as daily drivers, but there are license plate readers everywhere to catch them.
California / West Coast did not connect to the U.S. production from all the fields East of the Mississippi. They also waged war on local oil and refining. So now they ship expensive refined product in from Canada and the Middle East.
So they did it to themselves.
40+ states charge 3x-6x more “road tax” annually on an EV registration than a similar gas car.
They also charge “road tax” at charging stations at about 4x the gas car rate.
They also generally collect more sales and property taxes on EVs than gassers.
And as you state regardless of what anyone tells you electricity is taxed, the average person in the us has ~$40 a month of their bill going to pay their share of the utilities municipal substation tax that inflates everyone’s bill, which is above the fair share of gas tax.
That it goes to the general fund which is where the majority of road funds have come from since the 70’s is irrelevant.
From what I can tell EVs are already overtaxed in most of the country so there is no problem to solve, unless we eliminate all regressiveEV specific taxes and instead fund roads strictly off general funds, tolls and commercial, which then actually taxes those somewhat proportionally to their income and damage caused.
People who don’t own a car then also pay in.
Nearly all road funding in most areas is from general funds anyway , so the mythology of registrations and gas tax is a red herring anyway.
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SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
I will always believe "they" .... (its really a bunch of them , arrogant, reckless CEOs + their Gov partners in crime) are responsible, as usual for the very poor roll out of EVs that has contributed to the attitude of a large segment of the public in regards to EVs in general.
All of the confusions, along with the foolish & undeserved bad reputation, bad rumors, the lack of proper education about them to the general public that hurt the entire EV industry right out the gate. "They" really shot themselves in the foot trying to push the EVs on the public with the "you WILL take them or else" arrogant attitudes of those in charge at the time.
The entire thing would be so much farther along and accepted by more of the driving public had they not put the cart before the horse and come out and instead heavily incentivized people to test the waters with the hybrid models before the full on total electrics that folks are pushing back hard on.
I may not want an EV now. But I can tell that one day as the industry improves , works out all the kinks and bugs like insurance and maintenance issues , (to total or not when wrecked since they are so expensive? Trade in / resale values etc... Extra higher than ICE insurance rates? Lack of enough skilled technicians to go around) and on and on. Yet , they will eventually be accepted more over time and become just a new part of the transportation industry.
We certainly have a ways to go until they are widely accepted. They also have a very long way to go before the masses can even afford them if wanted.
Sure but that econobox would weigh half significantly less. I mean the state could just levy a tax based on vehicle weight.
Ditto.
So if the Armchair Intellectual Bureaucrat wishes to try to write a "fair" formula for taxation then tire pressure would be an important criteria. Semi trucks running 90 PSI taxed hard. 70 series tires on SUVs at 32 PSI taxed lightest.
I wish we had "computer" lanes around here!
So? Most of us are stiffed with an annual "EV Fee" far in excess of the state gas tax to make up for the Federal part as well.
When my monopoly electric provider becomes hostile and userous I'll react.
Solar provided me with over 7K a year in electricity for 20K.
Is it green maybe, probably, do I care about that? It's nice, but green wasn't my goal.
EV's have been hugely polarized and I don't like them because anyone told me to.
(Im inclined to automatically not like anything Im told to like because us GENX severely distrust authority.)
The last 15 years I've watched EV's go from novelty to superb transportation.
There are plenty that are around the average price of a car.
To me they are a way I can give the middle finger to opec, and the state with their smog stations, gas cans that dont work, and parts you cant buy because of CARB.
If you have acess to a 50 amp connector in a garage rent for one for a few days and check it out- I think you'll be surprised.
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