How to remove positive lead from starter?

[OilFilters]

I'm installing a new starter on my truck and I want to use a remote starter solenoid instead of the one that is attached to the starter. (Long story why) I want to connect my new 2/0 battery cable directly to the main positive lead on the starter, avoiding the OEM solenoid.

The problem is I'm not sure how this main positive cable from the solenoid to the starter motor is attached? I expected to find a bolt on lug here, but it looks soldered. Can I unscrew this part from the starter?

It didn't even come with the protective caps like it should have over this spot, the one I bought showed rubber caps here, that's why I thought there would be simple bolt on connection underneath...

 

[Chris142]

Its soldered.take it off from the solonoid instead

 

[Falken]

I'd disconnect the battery first as well as a precaution.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Its soldered.take it off from the solonoid instead

But soldered to what? Is there another stud in there that can be removed? It looks like it might be soldered to some kind of stud.

I don't want to use this piece of cable, it is hugely inferior to the battery cables I have spent a lot of money building to avoid any voltage drop. This tiny cable is both too small and has bad connections on both ends. (Cheap chinese junk)

I know it's short but I just want it gone. It's cheap and unreliable. And uninsulated.

 

[BigD1]

You could take the solder off the copper wire, and then remove it, and then solder the remote cable back on that metal plate. Then coat with a few coats of clear finger nail polish.

I wonder how much money they saved by not using lugs? That stud under the plate is probably not threaded either, but who knows when the manufacturer is trying to save a dime.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: Falken
I'd disconnect the battery first as well as a precaution.

It's still out of the vehicle. New starter I haven't installed yet. Trying to improve upon the chinese build quality.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: BigD1
You could take the solder off the copper wire, and then remove it, and then solder the remote cable back on that metal plate.


Actually, the metal plate seems to be welded to the wire, the only solder is where it attaches directly to the starter. Other ends are some kind of really bad spot welds.

I could try to solder another lug on top of the one on the starter, but I'm afraid I might melt something internally.

 

[BigD1]

Sound like a good idea. Just solder your wire to the plate, and cut as much as you can of the old one off. I don't thick you will hurt anything doing it that way.

 

[mk378]

I don't get this remote solenoid thing. You should just use the unit stock and if the battery is far away, run heavy cable to its input post.

Getting the bendix drive to engage when not connected to the motor may be tricky. The stock solenoid almost always has two sections and one depends on flowing some current through the motor for initial pull in. Then when the contacts close, that part of the coil is bypassed to prevent overheating while the key is held on.

That motor wire is going to go to the brush holder inside. If you take the starter apart I bet that it has a nut on the inside end; you should be able to take that piece out and re-solder it, or replace with a longer stud so you can put a terminal on the outside. Really it would be simplest to work on the other end of the wire like everyone is saying.

 

[BigD1]

After looking at it again, it looks like the wire coming from the solenoid does have a lug that I have never seen before. How the heck they have it attached to the stud I don't know. That stud could possibly be threaded too. Just saving a dime on a nut looks like to me!

Honestly, when they started making the solenoids, so I could not turn them 180 degrees to make them work like a new one, I knew then it was all down hill as far as quality goes.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: mk378
I don't get this remote solenoid thing. You should just use the unit stock and if the battery is far away, run heavy cable to its input post.

According to the spec sheet that came with this starter, it draws 650 amps full load. About six times your average car. (diesel engine, 22:1 compression) Even .1 volt counts, so I have built some hefty cables for the starter. I would like to use dual remote starter solenoids because then I only have half the voltage drop across the solenoid. I'm also using continuous duty solenoids which would work singularly if one fails, thus I have a backup. Remote solenoids are better because less of this giant gauge battery cable is energized full time, also they will be located in a cooler place away from the exhaust. It's part of a much more complicated system.

But I don't want this thread to turn into a bunch of opinions about that though so let's please stay more on topic. Even if I keep the original solenoid it seems wrong to run hefty battery cables to this pathetic little chinese jumper wire with bad spot welds. I want it upgraded either way.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: BigD1
Sound like a good idea. Just solder your wire to the plate, and cut as much as you can of the old one off. I don't thick you will hurt anything doing it that way.


I'm scared of melting the little plastic insulator underneath. It seems like that is the only thing separating these giant battery cables and two group 31 batteries from a DEAD SHORT!

I guess they soldered it that way at the factory but I don't have the same experience the poor little slave who put this together does. I bought a hydraulic crimper to build my cables so I don't have to solder them.

I'll see about taking it apart and see if I can find a nut on the other side. I would really love to replace it with a longer stud.

 

[HerrStig]

As others have mentioned, the solenoid has two roles, one is to switch the heavy battery current and the other to engage the starter drive to the flywheel. You would have to internally rewire the solenoid to bypass the battery switching contacts while retaining the engaging mechanism, otherwise you'll end up with two sets of contacts in the circuit, which will add to the voltage drop.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
As others have mentioned, the solenoid has two roles, one is to switch the heavy battery current and the other to engage the starter drive to the flywheel. You would have to internally rewire the solenoid to bypass the battery switching contacts while retaining the engaging mechanism, otherwise you'll end up with two sets of contacts in the circuit, which will add to the voltage drop.


You'll have to elaborate on that, I'm not sure what you mean? Lot's of older vehicles have remote starter solenoids. It's usually referred to as a "Ford" type. This happens to be a Ford truck but an International motor. In the event that a starter solenoid fails, jumping across the leads with a screwdriver is a common solution.

 

[BigD1]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Lot's of older vehicles have remote starter solenoids. It's usually referred to as a "Ford" type. This happens to be a Ford truck but an International motor. In the event that a starter solenoid fails, jumping across the leads with a screwdriver is a common solution.


Seen a few of those in my time, and yes the the screwdriver has saved my bacon more than one time. I just can't remember how everything was wired up with the switch wire and hots. Getting too old to remember all this stuff!

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
As others have mentioned, the solenoid has two roles, one is to switch the heavy battery current and the other to engage the starter drive to the flywheel. You would have to internally rewire the solenoid to bypass the battery switching contacts while retaining the engaging mechanism, otherwise you'll end up with two sets of contacts in the circuit, which will add to the voltage drop.


You'll have to elaborate on that, I'm not sure what you mean? Lot's of older vehicles have remote starter solenoids. It's usually referred to as a "Ford" type. This happens to be a Ford truck but an International motor. In the event that a starter solenoid fails, jumping across the leads with a screwdriver is a common solution.
They're NOT remote "solenoids" on the old Fords, they are current switching relays and there's still a solenoid in the starter to drive the Bendix to engage the flywheel. Another term for solenoid is "linear motor". If the external relay on a Ford starter system fails there won't be any 12V present for the screwdriver to jump, you have to jump the external relay contacts. The screwdriver trick works on non -external relay starters by jumping current from the always hot battery + lead to the solenoid in place of current from the ignition switch. TO do what you want to do you would have to install a high current lead from the battery to the relay and another high current lead from the relay to the starter and relocate the ignition switch lead from the solenoid terminal on the starter to the coil of the relay. Your photos don't tell me much, but there may be an external starter relay somewhere on the truck now.

 

[OilFilters]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
They're NOT remote "solenoids" on the old Fords, they are current switching relays and there's still a solenoid in the starter to drive the Bendix to engage the flywheel. Another term for solenoid is "linear motor". If the external relay on a Ford starter system fails there won't be any 12V present for the screwdriver to jump, you have to jump the external relay contacts. The screwdriver trick works on non -external relay starters by jumping current from the always hot battery + lead to the solenoid in place of current from the ignition switch. TO do what you want to do you would have to install a high current lead from the battery to the relay and another high current lead from the relay to the starter and relocate the ignition switch lead from the solenoid terminal on the starter to the coil of the relay. Your photos don't tell me much, but there may be an external starter relay somewhere on the truck now.


Either you aren't understanding me, or I'm not understanding you. You can very clearly see in my pictures that the starter I am using has a starter mounted solenoid. There is no other solenoid, besides the one for the glow plugs. I want to simply move this solenoid from being mounted on the starter to being mounted closer to the battery. At the same time I'm going to use a higher quality continuous duty solenoid, and two of them in parallel just for good measure. China solenoid goes in the garbage. I am rewiring the entire truck, new relays, switches, wire, fuse box, etc. And I can do a much better job than Ford did in mass production.

To trigger the starter I'm going to install a simple momentary push button, bypassing the key, and all the other [censored] between the starter and the ignition switch. But I suppose I could use the normal signal wire from the OEM ignition switch if I wanted to.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with two solenoids. A solenoid is not required for the bendix to engage. This happens automatically when the starter starts spinning. I have several boats and pieces of equipment with remote mounted starter relays like this, it is quite common and universal. The starter is just a big motor that spins as soon as that 650 amps hits it.

All I need is a good place to bolt a thick hot wire to the starter that comes off my remote start solenoid. The remote solenoid basically takes the place of the screwdriver.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: OilFilters

I'm not convinced you have a bendix "flinger". Solenoid sure seems positioned to pull the gear in/ out.

Voltage drop is a function of cable length; if you run huge cables to the stock connections you'd be more than fine with the four inches of so-called undersized wiring and not wreck your starter warranty.