2005 Corolla S no-crank condition

[JeffKeryk]

This past Monday I brought my grand nieces' 2005 Corolla S, 137K, home for service. I replaced the positive battery terminal without removing the negative terminal; my bad. Car started fine and I moved it to the driveway.

As far as I know, the Corolla has not had any starting issues but I have not seen it in 6 months. I ask, but the kids say, "It's fine."

Tuesday morning I get in to return the car. Engine cranks slowly like a dragging starter or weak battery. Battery is maybe 4 years old. Engine starts and then dies, like when it has to relearn. Pretty normal Toyota stuff. Try to restart and there is no crank. Dash lights, radio, fan, etc all good.

Hook up jump box, still no crank. Later I have wifey try while I watch VOM; about 12.7v, no load drop. Checked main fuse. Starter relay is under dash, kinda buried.
Could the starter have taken a dump? Maybe. Tried various things, no change. The terminal uses a 12mm nut to connect the cables to the terminal; thought perhaps I had missed a positive terminal wire. Removed battery for a comprehensive look. Nothing...

Left battery terminals off overnight. Reinstalled terminals this morning, positive first. Negative gave a small spark; there had been no such spark since the last time the engine cranked. Turned key; engine cranked slowly and started; then died. Back to no-crank condition.

My limited understanding is, if I had damaged the CPU by failing to disconnect negative lead first there would be other issues. I think the car is in the security position and/or is in learning mode. I did try cycling ignition from off-to-on 5 times and leaving key in on position for 10 minutes. No luck; still in no-crank condition.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Astro14]

Slow crank, then no load drop, I would suspect the starter itself. A dead spot on the commutator, worn brushes, bad solenoid, something. If it was a weak battery, the volts would drop too far. But no volt drop = no current flow through the starter motor.

 

[Leo99]

Idk. I'd disconnect the neg terminal for a few minutes to try and "reset" things and see if any improvement. I don't think there is any theft deterrent type of thing on the car that you might have triggered.

 

[eljefino]

Throw some jumper cables on it. I bet it still cranks slowly, evidence of a dragging starter. The batteries in these cars are waaay oversized.

 

[The Critic]

Starter is pretty easy to access, can you confirm there's 12V there when cranking?

 

[Leo99]

Starter is pretty easy to access, can you confirm there's 12V there when cranking?

I replaced the starter in my old Corolla twice. It's a weak point.

 

[Hirev]

I would use a multimeter and see what voltage drop looks like at the battery terminals and than the starter when you try to start it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

There was no voltage drop yesterday. I've disconnected the negative terminal; will try again in a few minutes. Gonna whack that starter.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[JMJNet]

Load test the battery?

 

[bullwinkle]

One of the first things I replaced on my '07 Corolla was the starter-cranked slow, even with clean terminals & brand new battery. New TYC one spun it at least twice as fast.

 

[JeffKeryk]

OK. So I go out, connect the negative terminal and beat the crap outta the starter. Now I did hit it yesterday, but not like this.

Ms Corolla started right up. Let her run, shut 'er down, ad she fired right up again.
I will go pick up a starter and instead of raking leaves tomorrow morning I'll swap the starter.

Full disclosure, @The Critic advised me to do this yesterday; I listened but not good enough. I'm still a knucklehead. He knows his stuff. I was stuck in the relay... Big thanks are in order.
Honorable mention to @Astro14.
Apparently a small sledge is still the universal tool, as they say.

You guys ROCK! Enjoy the bird tomorrow.

 

[supton]

I don't see a correlation here to connection of cables--need both in order to have a complete circuit. The reason why they recommend to remove negative first is because if you screw up and tap the wrench against anything metallic, nothing bad happens, as it's tied to the negative cable. You can remove positive first, you just have to pay a bit more attention.

After leaving the battery cable off overnight, the various modules discharged any capacitors. There was a brief spark due to everything getting charged back up. Not seeing an issue there.

Now having some issue with the security... that I don't know anything about, new fangled electronics making life harder...

I see you just posted--whacking the starter and having it come back to life is the classic diagnosis of... a bad starter. You might be able to get new contacts for the starter off ebay, I "rebuilt" the starter in my Camry doing that, cost like $20. Regardless. Good luck!

 

[Trav]

It quite possibly just has worn brushes, easy things to check and cheap to replace.

 

[Leo99]

As I recall, the + cable sits under the starter and you can't see it and have to feel it to connect the nut. The first time, this gave me some fight. The second time it was a lot easier.

You do one good thing and it turns into another project. LOL

 

[JeffKeryk]

As I recall, the + cable sits under the starter and you can't see it and have to feel it to connect the nut. The first time, this gave me some fight. The second time it was a lot easier.

You do one good thing and it turns into another project. LOL

I will pull the fan shroud assembly. Maybe remove the electrics after removing the 2 mounting fasteners with the rear of the starter facing up.

After replacing so many American V8 starters on the side of the road in the dirt, I learnt to hold the starter with 1 hand and wrench with the other. Or whatever. Starters today are so light is a joke.

 

[Leo99]

I will pull the fan shroud assembly. Maybe remove the electrics after removing the 2 mounting fasteners with the rear of the starter facing up.

After replacing so many American V8 starters on the side of the road in the dirt, I learnt to hold the starter with 1 hand and wrench with the other. Or whatever. Starters today are so light is a joke.

It's not that difficult if you've done it before. It was my first starter replacement. It was about 10 years ago but I don't recall if the fan needed to be removed.

 

[97prizm]

This past Monday I brought my grand nieces' 2005 Corolla S, 137K, home for service. I replaced the positive battery terminal without removing the negative terminal; my bad. Car started fine and I moved it to the driveway.

As far as I know, the Corolla has not had any starting issues but I have not seen it in 6 months. I ask, but the kids say, "It's fine."

Tuesday morning I get in to return the car. Engine cranks slowly like a dragging starter or weak battery. Battery is maybe 4 years old. Engine starts and then dies, like when it has to relearn. Pretty normal Toyota stuff. Try to restart and there is no crank. Dash lights, radio, fan, etc all good.

Hook up jump box, still no crank. Later I have wifey try while I watch VOM; about 12.7v, no load drop. Checked main fuse. Starter relay is under dash, kinda buried.
Could the starter have taken a dump? Maybe. Tried various things, no change. The terminal uses a 12mm nut to connect the cables to the terminal; thought perhaps I had missed a positive terminal wire. Removed battery for a comprehensive look. Nothing...

Left battery terminals off overnight. Reinstalled terminals this morning, positive first. Negative gave a small spark; there had been no such spark since the last time the engine cranked. Turned key; engine cranked slowly and started; then died. Back to no-crank condition.

My limited understanding is, if I had damaged the CPU by failing to disconnect negative lead first there would be other issues. I think the car is in the security position and/or is in learning mode. I did try cycling ignition from off-to-on 5 times and leaving key in on position for 10 minutes. No luck; still in no-crank condition.

Any advice is appreciated.

I had a very Similar experience on my Dodge Neon around the end of 2022. I was getting random long crank no fire. Then it would be fine. One day i drove two miles home for lunch then back to work. On my way home I stopped at the grocery store ran in for 10 minutes. Came back out and no crank, power windows worked radio lights etc. From what the mechanic told me the wiring harness shorted out toasting the fuel pump hence the random long crank situation. They replaced the wiring harness, fuel pump.and battery as it was dated 2012 so ten years old.

 

[97prizm]

I missed it but if you hit the starter and it worked chances are the brushes are bad.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I am always leery of working on modern cars; sometimes starters are buried. This one is about as easy as it gets. 2 fasteners hold the fan assy in; then you have plenty of room. Access is 100% from the top.
I noticed a little red antifreeze residue; radiator will be due before too long.

I used an $80 TYC new starter from Amazon. Thanks to all who contributed.

 

[dishdude]

I am always leery of working on modern cars;

Good thing you're not working on one!