How to fix plaster ceiling

[ram_man]

The whole house has this. And you can see the seams now on most of it. Most of it's been repaired in the past and is nothing I'm worried about but this picture is the living room and it's the only room that appears to haven't had been repaired and I would like to fix the peeling plaster problem. What is a cheap decent way of doing this?

 

[demarpaint]

How old is the house? Is it actual plaster? When you scrape it and rub your hand on the area you scraped or rub the back of the peeling paint are the surfaces chalky? In other words does white chalky powder transfer onto your finger?

 

[ram_man]

No chalky ness at all actually. I should re word that to I assume it's plaster....I'm by no means a carpenter.
The house is 72yrs old.

 

[demarpaint]

Ok it's most likely plaster then, and might have been painted with Casein or Calcimine paint back in the day. They can be a royal PITA because they can pop somewhere else. Without going into a whole bunch of history and technical B_S I'll give you two choices for repair.

Scrape all the loose paint off and take a damp cloth and wipe the areas down. Spot prime the areas with Zinsser Peel Stop, let it dry about 2 hours, then prime the entire ceiling with it. Do your repairs with joint compound, or Ready Patch and spot prime them with a fast dry oil primer, or Zinsser Bin. Paint the ceiling.

Your other choice is to substitute Peel Stop with a slower drying Oil Primer like Benjamin Moore Fresh Start Oil Base Primer. Spot prime the repairs with Bin or Fresh Start Oil Primer. Paint the ceiling. Don't use a traditional latex primer.

Note: All repairs should be done over a primer [Peel Stop or Oil Primer] and then primed again to sandwich them in. Cracks can be taped with Fiber Glass Mesh tape and Spackled in.

 

[ram_man]

I have some spackling and plaster repair putty but wasn't sure if either of those would be of any use.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Ok it's most likely plaster then, and might have been painted with Casein or Calcimine paint back in the day. They can be a royal PITA because they can pop somewhere else. Without going into a whole bunch of history and technical B_S I'll give you two choices for repair.

Scrape all the loose paint off and take a damp cloth and wipe the areas down. Spot prime the areas with Zinsser Peel Stop, let it dry about 2 hours, then prime the entire ceiling with it. Do your repairs with joint compound, or Ready Patch and spot prime them with a fast dry oil primer, or Zinsser Bin. Paint the ceiling.

Your other choice is to substitute Peel Stop with a slower drying Oil Primer like Benjamin Moore Fresh Start Oil Base Primer. Spot prime the repairs with Bin or Fresh Start Oil Primer. Paint the ceiling. Don't use a traditional latex primer.

Note: All repairs should be done over a primer [Peel Stop or Oil Primer] and then primed again to sandwich them in. Cracks can be taped with Fiber Glass Mesh tape and Spackled in.

Expert advice here. I've used several of Zinnser's primers and was pleased all around.

Where in New York are you? Want to paint my house?

 

[demarpaint]

^^ Long Island.^^ We call those ceilings "Hot Ceilings" they can be a royal PITA to repair.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
^^ Long Island.^^ We call those ceilings "Hot Ceilings" they can be a royal PITA to repair.

Oh well. I suppose I'll tackle it myself this winter.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
^^ Long Island.^^ We call those ceilings "Hot Ceilings" they can be a royal PITA to repair.

Oh well. I suppose I'll tackle it myself this winter.


If you run into a problem or have a question shoot me a pm.

 

[ram_man]

How do I scrape the loose paint off? Off I scrape the actual plaster textured stuff comes off.

 

[demarpaint]

Anything that is popped or opened up like in your picture must be scraped down to a sound surface. You'd use a paint scraper, or putty knife for example. Then once it's primed and repaired it gets textured back in again then spot primed and painted with the ceiling. It is hard for me to tell from the picture but you might be able to texture that with some joint compound and a sea sponge. You'll have to experiment with duplicating the texture, that takes some talent and practice. But with a good eye and some experimentation you'll probably get good results. The good news is this, with joint compound or a paint additive if you don't like the blending texture results you can sponge them off while it's still wet.

 

[JHZR2]

its probably not real plaster as in plaster and lathe, but without more of a picture, or you going hunting someplace where you can see a wall from behind, its tough to know for sure.

Based upon the straight line there, Im guessing it was some combo of gypsum board that gets a skim coat - one of those hybrids from around the time when building art and quality was going down the tubes and cheapness of materials was the name of the game. You're about right on the cusp there.

Is it a nail pop, a breaking off of the skim coat, or a failure of the substrate behind it? We need to know what they are to make a good determination.

Generally in older homes, the easiest and probably best thing to do is just put up a new sheetrock layer over top of the plaster. Id never do this for walls, but the removal of a ceiling in a lived in home is just really dirty and tough, and gravity is not the friend of an old ceiling.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
How do I scrape the loose paint off? Off I scrape the actual plaster textured stuff comes off.


Be careful with loose paint, especially if there are little ones in the house. There likely is lead paint under there for a few coats...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: ram_man
How do I scrape the loose paint off? Off I scrape the actual plaster textured stuff comes off.


Be careful with loose paint, especially if there are little ones in the house. There likely is lead paint under there for a few coats...


Good point, if it is in fact the original plaster there's a real good chance there's lead paint up there too. I'm thinking it is rock lath with a plaster finish. Which is how plaster evolved before actual drywall. If you look at the picture that appears to be cracked the paint is popping in that area, and needs to be scraped and prepped as I mentioned earlier. Proper safety precautions are always important.

Sheetrock is always best for those old hot ceilings. Locate the beams and sheet rock right over it, screwing into the beams. Problem solved for good. Most people don't want to do that type of work though and opt for repair and repaint.

If you're concerned about lead you can always test for lead. Most good paint stores sell something for testing for lead.

 

[kb01]

I've run into similar problems with my ~ 100 year old house.

It seems like once the plaster starts separating from the lathe, repairs only buy you time and aren't permanent. Out of all the various solutions I've tried, very carefully drilled holes and strategically placed molly bolts work the best.

If the plaster is still attached to the lathe and it's just the outer layer that's separating, a skim coat should work. But that opens up issues with sanding and lead paint.

When my kitchen ceiling completely caved in two or three years ago, I wound up just replacing it with faux-antique ceiling tiles.

 

[demarpaint]

Those pictures look like paint peeling off plaster, the very first coat of paint. All subsequent coats of paint will come off if the first coat of paint fails. Scrape a bit down and take another picture....

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm thinking it is rock lath with a plaster finish. Which is how plaster evolved before actual drywall.


Yeah, thanks for the reminder, didn't recall how exactly it worked as we have wood lath. Wasn't there also a variant which was rock with holes in it that nailed up but then got a skim coat?

I was thinking something like a sheetrock substrate that then got skim coated because even modern drywall will show cracks on the ceilings along the seams if there is too much shifting/movement/issues. I had to wonder if OP's crack was really long, like the edge of a full sheet of that kind of stuff...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm thinking it is rock lath with a plaster finish. Which is how plaster evolved before actual drywall.


Yeah, thanks for the reminder, didn't recall how exactly it worked as we have wood lath. Wasn't there also a variant which was rock with holes in it that nailed up but then got a skim coat?

I was thinking something like a sheetrock substrate that then got skim coated because even modern drywall will show cracks on the ceilings along the seams if there is too much shifting/movement/issues. I had to wonder if OP's crack was really long, like the edge of a full sheet of that kind of stuff...


You're bringing back memories of wood lath with a scratch coat, brown coat, and finish. Back in the day they'd often mix horse hair into the scratch coat to aid in it bonding to the wood lath. Many times it would fail later on because they didn't mix in enough horse hair.

Rock lath is something that looks like drywall with holes in it and then plastered over, much newer than wood lath. They also used wire lath as well.

It would be nice to see a shot of the OP's ceiling from a distance, but the pictures he posted indicate some cracking with paint failure. Once that is scraped out, and spot primed if it is cracked he can mesh tape it. Since the ceiling has probably been repaired before, which the texture indicates he'd be better off cutting his mesh tape, then splitting it in two length wise. Then he won't have to feather out the repair as far making texturing it a little easier. The repairs are a lot easier for me than writing about them.

When I moved into my house the ground floor ceilings were bad. We sheet rocked them, problem solved. LOL Not everyone wants to do that though, repairs can be successful and a lot less costly.

 

[hattaresguy]

Ugh I hate plaster, sheet rock the ceiling and be done with it.

Is it sagging? Plaster ceilings can literally weigh thousands of pounds and they usually used under sized joists in the past so they sag.

I have fixed quite a number of these ceilings, and its a lot of work.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Rock lath is something that looks like drywall with holes in it and then plastered over, much newer than wood lath. They also used wire lath as well.


I've owned two homes with that. Both built in the mid 1950's. Mine were built with 2'x4' sections of 'drywall' with two different coats of plaster material over the top of that. That stuff wouldn't de-laminate even when soaking wet!! Walls were hard as a rock, super thick in areas and a pain in the stones to ever have to patch an area with a standard piece of drywall.

I always marveled at the time/work they put into stuff back then.