News to me. I thought they went to Group 3 after the API changed the definition of Synthetic.
How Synthetic Oil Is Made
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
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True, and one can find almost as good for about 1/2 the cost.
Hi.
As a Layman when it comes to oils and lubricants, i found the video 'what's in synthetic motor oil' very helpful.
I have Amsoil severe gear lubricant in my Jeep's differentials. I managed to get it cheap. Amsoil products are eye wateringly expensive in UK though.
Amsoil signature series 5w30 is £55 for one US Gallon.
As a Layman when it comes to oils and lubricants, i found the video 'what's in synthetic motor oil' very helpful.
I have Amsoil severe gear lubricant in my Jeep's differentials. I managed to get it cheap. Amsoil products are eye wateringly expensive in UK though.
Amsoil signature series 5w30 is £55 for one US Gallon.
I'm not referring to you, necessarily. You've been on the up and up from what I've seen.
But come on, you've seen the troops out there that put out stuff like the Warren crap above making it sound like Amsoil is the only company that has any quality controls. I've seen this stuff for years from the fanboy corps. I just find some of the stuff like that to be silly. I've seen it too many times over many years. It is clearly still out there. I frequent many Jeep, GM, Ford, and Mercedes forums and its all there, on all of them, and it all looks very similar. So similar, that I can't help but suspect it is intentional. It's just a little harder here because the crowd is a bit more knowledgeable than on the typical automotive forum.
Again, it leaves a bad enough taste in my mouth that I just can't bring myself to support it by buying the product. Which is too bad. Because I do believe it is very good, even if overpriced.
I have never actually seen that. Maybe you have a link or something? I've never even heard an Amsoil dealer mention Warren - most are kind of oblivious to such detail, in my personal opinion, and certainly not the minutia mentioned here. Intentional lies about oil blenders? Not testing, not running batch QA? I have to admit, I've never read such a thing.
If you have some evidence or if some dealer has posted false information, I'm sure the corps and troops here would love to tear into it like a juicy steak.
Happens all the time. I'm sure others have seen it, too. You've been here since 2002 and you've not witnessed it? Really?
Independent Amsoil dealers are notorious for it and have earned the rep over many years on all kinds of automotive forums in countless threads. Like I said, it hasn't been as bad here in recent years, but you don't have to go back too far to find Amsoil threads with it plainly in your face.
You can pretend you are ignorant to this, but all that could possibly do is compromise your good reputation.
If you are talking generalities - sure I have seen dealers say and write some very ignorant and frankly odd stuff. But specifics, about Warren or blenders? Not that I recall. I mean, notorious, countless?? You wrote a very serious allegation - you alleged Amsoil specifically created some BS about Warren. I've seen nothing to prove this and frankly I'm not sure why you can seemingly come across as somehow better than those dealers who were wrongly off base.
My reputation is not at stake here. I just think you are overly sensitive.
The common API oils usually don't aim to exceed anything. Again, they look to the additive company for an add pack and blend recipe that will meet API SP as cheap as possible. Recipe and materials are provided, it's blended, a starburst slapped on it, and sent out the door. Whether the specs just barely pass bare minimums or exceed it a hair (none of them are blowing it out of the water), they don't really care. They're not in the business of making a better performing product than other API oils. They're in the business of maximizing profit and fight for customers with marketing and price rather than on the spec sheet. Heck, probably 98% of the population couldn't tell you what API SP even is, including quick change lube techs.
Dexos isn't anything too special. Better LSPI control and reduced timing chain wear which API SP tends to cover. We're not talking ACEA because the Euro standards are a higher than our API standards.
The boutique oils see API SP and say "Those minimum standards are pathetic. Like setting a Waffle House steak as the standard for steakhouses. I want that Michelin star! Minimum 15% Noack? I can make it 10. HTHS of 2.9 cP? I can make it >3.5 cP." You get the point. They don't want a cookie cutter add pack that just meets the spec. They top treat, blend, test, adjust, test, adjust, test, and on and on until they find the specs they are aiming for. They then regularly test new additives and blends for ways to improve.
It maybe so, but when boutique oil does not have API seal approval, you have to put your trust in manufacture statements/claims that its “recommended” to be used in applications that require API approvals.
The API did not change the definition of synthetic. So much incorrect lore on this subject.
So who did change the definition of Synthetic. For a couple of decades group 1, 2 and 3 where petro based and group 4 & 5 were Synthetic.
After Mobil made the complaint and lost, group 3 is now called a Synthetic(and it's not).
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The advertising division of the Better Business Bureau (BBB) determined that Group III was appropriate to be called "synthetic" and that became the standard going forward in all places except Germany, who require ~70-75% PAO in the base oil blend for the "full synthetic" (vollsynthetisches) label to be used.
And beyond what Overkill noted, the reason it was a marketing dispute is because the word is at its core a marketing term. The reason I knew the API did not change their definition is because the API does not define it in the first place. The API is concerned about oil performance and not marketing terms.
What's really silly about the whole NAD event is that both ExxonMobil and Castrol were already selling majority Group III synthetics worldwide, and if it had progressed any further than the NAD then ExxonMobil would have lost their case anyway. The United States was actually quite late in changing that marketing term.
So tell me since you're apparently in the know about synthetics, is GTL a synthetic? It's a Group III base stock.
So these “specialty blenders” that exceed requirements know better than the actual engineers/oems that designed the engines? Yes I’m sure
.That isn’t at all what he said nor meant.So these “specialty blenders” that exceed requirements know better than the actual engineers/oems that designed the engines? Yes I’m sure
So can someone explain to me why people are getting so worked up about these special blends of oil that “over exceed” industry specs when meanwhile the engineers are telling you exactly what’s needed?
The people who literally test oil for a living say there’s no statistical difference between oil brands. They mainly use conventional themselves.
And please don’t mention extended drain intervals because that’s possible with oils at Walmart. Hell, even @dnewton3 ran super tech conventional for 12k in his Taurus.
MolaKule
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The OP presented a Video of oil blending technology to inform those who may have never seen a blending facility.
However, some have decided to derail the focus of blending technology with innuendos, accusations, and off topic sidetracks so we will close this thread.
However, some have decided to derail the focus of blending technology with innuendos, accusations, and off topic sidetracks so we will close this thread.
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