EP 0w20 has a substantial shot of PAO. And I'm not interested in Amsoil's placebo oil.
How Synthetic Oil Is Made
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
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This, as has been explained here many, many times.
This is an official statement/explanation from Amsoil explaining why it has no API seal approval. Company statement, nothing else to back it
MolaKule
Staff member
i believe their XL series does have API approval seals.
Did anyone else see the plaque on the wall at 02:18 in the video. It states at the bottom "Change oil & Filter at 25,000 miles or one year"
High millage oil changes aren't just a modern thing then!
I wonder what the conidition of that oil would have been like at 25k miles!
High millage oil changes aren't just a modern thing then!
I wonder what the conidition of that oil would have been like at 25k miles!
I was only talking about Amsoil Signature Series.
MolaKule
Staff member
That’s still well over the price of the competition.
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So, is it safe to assume most blenders such as warren would send out to test their formulations to a 3rd party mechanical testing lab vs amsoil having that in house?
Group III synthetic? Mobil 1 def has PAO in it, even moreso in the EP
Most? I actually don't know. Case by case I assume.
MolaKule
Staff member
I think people may be misunderstanding the two possible paths a blender can take.
Path #1:
You contract with an additive manufacturer to supply you with the DI (additive) package(s). The additive manufacturer gives you a set of formulae that if followed exactly, guarantees the final blend will meet specific certifications. You must use the exact base oils and the required additive treatment rates to stay within the certs. You buy the VII extra, although the additive manufacturer may also specify the VII. Many blenders use this path when they have no chemical or formulation consultants with which to advise them.
The additive manufacturer has had his formulations formally tested against the necessary testing protocols to met the minimum OEM specifications.
Path #2.
You contract with an additive manufacturer to supply you with the DI (additive) package(s) as in #1. Or, you may develop your own DI package using your expert consultants. You have your own expert consultants advise you on the formulation strategy. You use the DI package supplied to you by the additive manufacturer, but you modify or "boost" the formula with "top treats" to exceed the minimum OEM specifications.
This is the method used by blenders who want to surpass the minimum OEM specifications. They can have their formulations further tested by certified API labs to obtain the API seals if they so choose.
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Warren is firmly in path #1. It's possible they may send a sample out to confirm the batch is correct but unlikely. Additive company provides a cookie cutter recipe to meet the minimum standards at the lowest cost, they follow the recipe, slap an API starburst on it, and send it out the door.
You sure? They have many products that exceed requirements like GF6 and API SP. as does little itty bitty smittys supply. Check out their tds for their regular syn blend, it exceeds all requirements of GF6
GF6 and API SP... Aka cookie cutter bare minimum standard.
Testing required on the oil blender side is minimal. This testing will not be the same as the testing required by API which is carried out by the adpack manufacturer. Typical testing of the basic blend by the manufacturer of the finished oil may be limited to appearance, viscosities, VI, cold crank, and elemental analysis. If the product is enhanced, it may be bench tested for the boosted aspect of the oil such as wear control or improved bearing corrosion protection and so on.
Engine oil performance specifications are developed in a cooperative effort between additive companies such as Lubrizol, Infineum and Afton and US car, truck and engine manufacturers and JAMA. These companies agree on oil performance specifications based on engine design and operation. Additive packages to meet these specifications are developed by the additive companies who ensure their compliance with the specifications. Testing includes bench tests as well as engine tests in a range of base oils by type and brand. Adpack R&D and testing is extremely expensive
An oil blender can purchase one of these adpacks, blend it at a specific treat level with tested base oils and polymer blend and claim compliance to and API category. Interchangeability of base oils is not a given. Using base oils not on the tested list requires testing which is defined by the API even though the untested oil may be comparable to the tested oil.
API licenses or certifications can be obtained on oils made with tested oils and additives. However, the API will not license an improved (by the addition of other base oils or performance additives) oil without testing that shows it is in compliance with API requirements. This is why you may see a blender sell both licensed and unlicensed oils.
Engine oil performance specifications are developed in a cooperative effort between additive companies such as Lubrizol, Infineum and Afton and US car, truck and engine manufacturers and JAMA. These companies agree on oil performance specifications based on engine design and operation. Additive packages to meet these specifications are developed by the additive companies who ensure their compliance with the specifications. Testing includes bench tests as well as engine tests in a range of base oils by type and brand. Adpack R&D and testing is extremely expensive
An oil blender can purchase one of these adpacks, blend it at a specific treat level with tested base oils and polymer blend and claim compliance to and API category. Interchangeability of base oils is not a given. Using base oils not on the tested list requires testing which is defined by the API even though the untested oil may be comparable to the tested oil.
API licenses or certifications can be obtained on oils made with tested oils and additives. However, the API will not license an improved (by the addition of other base oils or performance additives) oil without testing that shows it is in compliance with API requirements. This is why you may see a blender sell both licensed and unlicensed oils.
Lots of assumptions as to what individual companies do or don't do. I would not assume for example, that Warren doesn't closely monitor the quality of their product. Honestly, that sounds like Amsoil propaganda, to me. And that's the kind of internet forum marketing crap I've seen over and over through the years by the Amsoil crowd. It is a big part of why I won't buy their oil, even though I do believe Signature Series is an outstanding product.
Unfortunately, we don't have a bunch of independent Warren (or other blender) marketers (or actual employees) around to refute any of it. I'd bet people in the know would have a thing or two to say about it.
Unfortunately, we don't have a bunch of independent Warren (or other blender) marketers (or actual employees) around to refute any of it. I'd bet people in the know would have a thing or two to say about it.
What the hell buddy?
I never even implied that. Please. Amsoil crowd?
Sometimes I just don't get it.
All I’m saying is these small blenders “exceed” requirements while you state they meet the bare minimum. If gf6 and SP are cookie cutter what is dexos and acea? Per your logic those are “cookie cutter” as well.
What are these speciality blenders blending to if it’s not “cookie cutter?” Some magical spec we aren’t aware of?
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