How Strange

[Scout1]

On my 2004 Accord 2.4 5 speed I've been fighting cold engine valve clatter for the last 20k miles or so. I first noticed some valve clatter on a cold engine when I switched from GTS conventional to PP (both 5w30 weights). It was so noticeable I did a short change and went back to the GTX only to find it still clattered. Hummm thought I... must not have noticed that before...

I've tried GC, Mobil 1 0w30 Green cap, and even Amsoil 5w30 to no avail. I've adjusted the valves three times, the last time carefully setting the lash to a bit below spec to see if it helped. It did and reduced the clatter, but I still heard it for the first couple of miles when the engine was cold.

So yesterday I dumped the Amsoil and had bought some NAPA 5w30 full synthetic on sale so I poured it in. Didn't change the filter since it only had 5k on it (I know, I change too often!) So I drove the car this morning and zero clatter!!! Unbelievable! Why would this oil eliminate the clatter when several other high quality oils didn't??? This NAPA oil is made by Ashland so I suspect it's a variant of SynPower.

(by the way, the temp is 57F today in Seattle, pretty standard for recent weeks so I don't think it's the weather warming up for why the clatter is gone) The car has 56k miles on it and I'm the original owner. It's always had frequent oil changes and is in excellent shape. Once warm, the engine is nice and silent as a Honda should be!

 

[Silver02ex]

I would have guess it's the oil filter and not the oil. This was the same thing with my wife's old 00 Mirage.

 

[Pablo]

Probably a combination of your last lash adjustment and an oil that is slightly higher viscosity at 60°F or so.

 

[Scout1]

But I didn't change the oil filter when I changed the oil. I's a PureOne filter I had in there for the 5k run of the Amsoil.

The clatter has been persistent while I've alternated between a Mobil 1 filter and the PureOne filter...

 

[Scout1]

Hi Pablo,
I guess that may be true... the other oils I have tried may be thinner at cold temps than the NAPA. The M1 and GC oils were "zero" weight ratings so they were probably thinner. The Amsoil and GTX were 5w ratings so the NAPA may have just been a bit thicker. Interesting thought.

Hummm... maybe I can try a 10w30 next time!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

#1 get rid of the PureOne its prob to efficient - I had to take off a Bosch (purolator) with filtech media due to excessive noise and VVTi not functioning on my Toyota running Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy. Try a Wix or Classic. Ive noticed PAO oils are typ noisier cold, group II somewhat and group I and II not at all. BTW, lashed Valves are supposed to be noisy when cold. NOTE: Dont underclearance the valve lash!!! ESP the exhaust - this will be an engine killer!!!

 

[RxxR]

You may also try 5w-40 or even 5w50 at these temperatures
Because if it's not filter or oil pump than it's the viscosity.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

The 0W 5W and 10W have absolutely NO MEANING at temps above freezing; though it does relate to base stock used and amount of Vii (evil stuff). winter multigrade ratings relates more at cold gelation point and pumpability at -25C to - 40C.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

This honda engine would never need or want more than a hearty SAE 30 grade.

 

[RxxR]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The 0W 5W and 10W have absolutely NO MEANING at temps above freezing

Absolutely right. But you see - the guy is after SAE 30 and if he tries SAE 40 or 50 the meaning is there I guarantee it

I can scan you a page from manual for Accord 2002, 2,3 and there is 20w50...

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The 0W 5W and 10W have absolutely NO MEANING at temps above freezing; though it does relate to base stock used and amount of Vii (evil stuff). winter multigrade ratings relates more at cold gelation point and pumpability at -25C to - 40C.


True enough. And that was my point. The oils mentioned may still have a lower viscosity at 60°F than the current oil. With perceived noises, these things are sometimes quite subtle.

 

[Mokanic]

I am wondering if what you are hearing is really valve clatter.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Slap? Wrist pin? Ahhh injector!

 

[demarpaint]

Give Castrol EDGE 5W30 a try and see if you care to experiment some more.

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
#1 get rid of the PureOne its prob to efficient - I had to take off a Bosch (purolator) with filtech media due to excessive noise and VVTi not functioning on my Toyota running Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy. Try a Wix or Classic. Ive noticed PAO oils are typ noisier cold, group II somewhat and group I and II not at all. BTW, lashed Valves are supposed to be noisy when cold. NOTE: Dont underclearance the valve lash!!! ESP the exhaust - this will be an engine killer!!!


I hadn't heard the PureOne was a bad filter. My impression reading about these filters is they are pretty good. At any rate, I've tried the Mobil 1 filter as well and it didn't help.

On the valve lash, I've only gone to .010 on the exhaust valves and the lower spec is .011 so it's not too tight to cause problems but I'll need recheck sooner than normal since there is less buffer for valve seat wear. I left the intakes at the lower spec of .008 inch.

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Slap? Wrist pin? Ahhh injector!


I thought it might be something else too, but I've had my ear all around that engine and I can't find the noise is coming from anywhere but the valve train. The fact that tightening the valve clearance modified the clatter pretty much assured me it was valves...

The exhaust values in particular make a loud metallic tap when you push/pull the tappet back and forth when you're adjusting them. Intake valves are quiet to the touch, but they are closer at .008 inch lash.

I notice this particular Honda engine has wider lash specs than many of the other Honda engines... must be a heat and materials thing I guess...

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Give Castrol EDGE 5W30 a try and see if you care to experiment some more.


I've been eying that stuff but it's been kinda expensive. If I can find some on sale, for sure I'll try it! Same for the Pennzoil Ultra... They look like very good oils!

 

[addyguy]

Edge must be cheaper than Amsoil, and you ran that for only 5k!

 

[Scout1]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Edge must be cheaper than Amsoil, and you ran that for only 5k!


True, but I bought that Amsoil on sale at Joe's when they were going out of business. Can't remember what I paid for it... you're right it was probably more than the Edge... BUT... it was on sale!

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
#1 get rid of the PureOne its prob to efficient - I had to take off a Bosch (purolator) with filtech media due to excessive noise and VVTi not functioning on my Toyota running Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy.

Arco, please either back up your endless stream of automotive hypochondria with facts... or stop spewing it. Whenever I go to check out the rumors you spread there is no supporting evidence whatsover from forum posters who are not either you or your nome de plume in other forums. For example, the only claims I have been able to find of the Toyota 1nx-fe's VVT-i viscosity sensitivity comes from you here, "TheSilkySmooth" on the YarisWorld forum, and one other post that I found once which refers to something the poster had once read on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forum. Hmmm...

-Steve