How short is a short trip?

[LeoStrop]

Hello people!

Since i use my bike to go to work, i end up using my car (Kadett on my sig) only one or two times a week. Sometimes i just utilize it to keep it running.

This led me to the question: what is a good distance/duration for a trip?

When i use it for these "maintenance" trips, this is what i do:

1. While i take the cover off, i let it iddle for about 5 minutes for warming up (the car runs on 100% ethanol).
2. 1 min after leaving the house i am already on the "highway" in 5th gear.
3. I drive it lightly for about 20 miles, and then on the way back i give it some 3rd and 4th gear pulls. So the total distance is around 40 miles and takes about 40 min.
4. I never do trips shorter than that, and every time i start the car it runs at least that distance.

Do you think this is sufficient? Would you do something different?

 

[UncleDave]

I wouldn't call that a short trip. Id define a short trip as one that most don't allow the vehicle to be fully warmed.

2 miles in town going to the store and back- something like that

at the end of 10-15 miles freeway trip you are up to temp.

Unless starting from Tuktoyaktuk AK in Jan you may need the fulll 20.

UD

 

[CharBaby]

A short trip is generally within biking travel, weather permitting.
Too far to walk in a timely fashion.
Too short a distance to start the engine & use fuel.

 

[andyd]

A short trip is any trip that doesn't open the thermostat.

 

[oilpsi2high]

Short trips are where the fluids don't get up to normal operating temps IMO.

 

[madeej11]

Just keep doing what you're doing, all good.

 

[LeoStrop]

All good then!

Thanks for the good answers!

 

[Dave9]

I would call that excessive, would never drive 40 miles just for the sake of that not being a short trip. It's still putting more wear on the vehicle and burning fuel you pay for, than if you just let it idle for 5 minutes and drive it 10 miles round trip.

Driving it only when you need to, where you need to, will reduce the wear on everything else. It is more cost effective in the long run to just change the oil a little more often based on time rather than mileage.

 

[blupupher]

I define short trip as any trip the engine oil does not get to operating temp.
And that is longer than the coolant getting up to temp.

Your drive is definitely not short trip.

My 3 mile drive to work is short trip.

 

[LeoStrop]

Originally Posted by Dave9
I would call that excessive, would never drive 40 miles just for the sake of that not being a short trip. It's still putting more wear on the vehicle and burning fuel you pay for, than if you just let it idle for 5 minutes and drive it 10 miles round trip.

Driving it only when you need to, where you need to, will reduce the wear on everything else. It is more cost effective in the long run to just change the oil a little more often based on time rather than mileage.


You may be right.

But i also enjoy the drive, so is not really a problem. But if I'm in a hurry i will consider going only 15 miles.

 

[WyrTwister]

I have no experience with using 100% ethanol in a car .

I am guessing the ethanol absorbs water from the atmosphere ? If so , I would try to keep the tank full or almost full .

I do not know if 100% ethanol gets " old " or , if it does , what that time period would be .

No more than you drive , it might be difficult to keep the fuel " fresh " by continually replenishing it ?

But other than these possible fuel concerns , it sounds like you are going a fine job with your 20 mile trips .

Best of luck to you ,

 

[wag123]

100% ethanol does not get old, but it does absorb water (pulls it right out of the air). Fortunately, the water does not phase separate out of pure alcohol (E100), it only does this when alcohol is combined with fossil fuel (E1, E15, E85). Water mixes completely with alcohol and pure alcohol (above 98%) mixes completely with fossil fuel, but water does not mix with fossil fuel and separates out.

 

[LeoStrop]

Originally Posted by WyrTwister
I have no experience with using 100% ethanol in a car .

I am guessing the ethanol absorbs water from the atmosphere ? If so , I would try to keep the tank full or almost full .

I do not know if 100% ethanol gets " old " or , if it does , what that time period would be .

No more than you drive , it might be difficult to keep the fuel " fresh " by continually replenishing it ?

But other than these possible fuel concerns , it sounds like you are going a fine job with your 20 mile trips .


After 1 year and 3 months with that car i never had any problems with the ethanol sitting, the car always run great. Since it has an external fuel pump i always leave at least 30 liters on the tank (60 L capacity).

These trips are only for running the car, but on my day off I tend to drive it for more than 40 miles. With the car doing around 19 mpg, i top off every 10 to 15 days, so i think i am ok.

But i am yet to find a good stabilizer around here, because the fuel that concerns me is the gasoline that sits on the cold start reservoir. It is located on the engine bay, and every cold start it injects a little bit to help start the car. I fill it with less than 1 liter and it last for several months.

Originally Posted by WyrTwister

Best of luck to you ,

Thanks! =)

Just a little cool info:

Last month it made 40 years of the first production car moved by ethanol here in Brazil, it was this little Fiat 147:

It was kept and restored by Fiat

The summit of ethanol cars was around 1985, where most of the cars on the road were moved by ethanol.

On the 90's there were a decline since the gas prices had stabilized, but in 2003 the first Flex car was launched:

Most of the cars today are Flex fuel cars. They also had the cold start reservoir, but the newer models have a fuel rail heater, wich start heating the fuel when you unlock the car or put the key on the ignition.

Toyota will be launching here the first Hybrid car to use ethanol on the world, i think it will be a Corolla.

 

[DGXR]

Originally Posted by LeoStrop
Hello people!

Since i use my bike to go to work, i end up using my car (Kadett on my sig) only one or two times a week. Sometimes i just utilize it to keep it running.

This led me to the question: what is a good distance/duration for a trip?

When i use it for these "maintenance" trips, this is what i do:

1. While i take the cover off, i let it iddle for about 5 minutes for warming up (the car runs on 100% ethanol).
2. 1 min after leaving the house i am already on the "highway" in 5th gear.
3. I drive it lightly for about 20 miles, and then on the way back i give it some 3rd and 4th gear pulls. So the total distance is around 40 miles and takes about 40 min.
4. I never do trips shorter than that, and every time i start the car it runs at least that distance.

Do you think this is sufficient? Would you do something different?

Those one or two times a week, how far and how much driving time?
Usually I say simply follow the appropriate service schedule (normal or severe) and get her good and hot once or twice a month. Short trips will only harm your car if that's all you do, ever. And then, it will just kill the cat (catalytic converter) and some other emissions parts... if your ethanol car even has those. Your "maintenance" trips seem excessive. Is your car collectible, rare, or otherwise highly valued?

 

[LeoStrop]

Hey DGXR! Sorry for the late reply, i only saw your post today.


Originally Posted by DGXR


Those one or two times a week, how far and how much driving time?


One is like i stated above, around 40 miles in 30 to 40min. The second one, normally is on my day off ,so i drive a little bit more (~60 + miles). Almost 100% of the time is on the highway.


Originally Posted by DGXR

Usually I say simply follow the appropriate service schedule (normal or severe) and get her good and hot once or twice a month. Short trips will only harm your car if that's all you do, ever. And then, it will just kill the cat (catalytic converter) and some other emissions parts... if your ethanol car even has those. Your "maintenance" trips seem excessive.


Thanks, i will consider doing less miles when i don't need to. The car doesn't have a cat, but ethanol produces quite a bit of water on the exhaust, so i like it to be fully warmed so this issue can be minimized when the car sits for the next few days.

To be fair, i end up driving this much because the roads are nice and i enjoy driving the car after a stressful day of work.

Originally Posted by DGXR

Is your car collectible, rare, or otherwise highly valued?


Not necessarily, it was just the "poor man's ride" back in 94, it's not even the GS or GSI version (sporty and more desirable). But that is actually what makes it "valuable": you can't find one in good condition anymore, mine has only 28K miles with original paint and everything, i bought it from the original owner (old lady).

Every time i go out someone has to stop me and ask about the car and how good it looks, everyone seems to have a good memory to tell about it back in the day. I like that.

I bought it because i wanted to start a project car, and since my budget is not very high i needed something cheap, easy to work on and with parts that are easy to find. But i also wanted something with no rust and in good shape, so that was a nice score.

I am currently enjoying the car as it came from the factory.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

They usually define a short trip as less than 5 miles (when it's cold, 10 miles)

 

[Mainia]

Short

 

[kschachn]

I will not forget my trip

Thanks for joining again.

 

[cdlamb]

What is the difference in cost between ethanol, & gasoline there?

With the increasing costs of grains recently, Is it still comparable to gasoline? Are you still able to get a premium fuel with 0 ethanol, & a regular grade with 10- 15%?

Currently the price of gasoline here is about 1.32/ liter or about $5.00 for a US gallon.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I wouldn't call that a short trip. Id define a short trip as one that most don't allow the vehicle to be fully warmed.

2 miles in town going to the store and back- something like that

at the end of 10-15 miles freeway trip you are up to temp.

Unless starting from Tuktoyaktuk AK in Jan you may need the fulll 20.

UD

Tuktoyuktuk is in NWT, Canada.